full interview_simone giertz_3.mp4
Simone Giertz [00:00:00] My name is Simone Giertz, and I am an inventor and YouTuber. No, I don't wanna stay in YouTuber. No, my name is Simon Giertz and I'm an inventor and I make videos about things I build.
Speaker 2 [00:00:16] Fantastic. So now we can expound a little bit on this thought. So tell me what it is that you do all day.
Simone Giertz [00:00:24] So I come up with an idea of something I want to build and then I start sketching and I build a prototype and then i build it and I film the process and edit it into a video and post it on YouTube.
Speaker 2 [00:00:40] And if you were to sort of put a label on this as an engineer, you called yourself an inventor. There's certainly design and an esthetic appeal to what you do. Can you talk about that?
Simone Giertz [00:00:54] It's hard to find a word that I feel is both accurate and comfortable. Like inventor is probably my favorite one because it's.
Speaker 2 [00:01:05] So just talking about the idea that, you know, not everyone thinks of an engineer. Technical work as creative. Can you speak to that idea and how you would sort of call what it is that you do?
Simone Giertz [00:01:22] So I'm not an engineer by trade, or like I didn't study engineering in school. I guess I am doing some engineering work because it's all about figuring out mechanics and electronics and something moving or acting in the way that I want it to do, but it's very free form. I just remember when I was learning how to build things that I remember talking to engineers and I was like kind of all starry-eyed, like you can do anything, like what are you doing with all these skills and this knowledge that you have? I often just got like a blank stare, like, I don't know, it's not, I do work, like I work on pneumatic systems or whatever, but I felt like people very rarely played with the skills that they had.
Speaker 2 [00:02:14] Do you feel like generally speaking that creativity is somewhat agnostic, that day to day you're being creative, you don't say, I'm making art, I am making a design, or I'm making something engineered, you're just being creative.
Simone Giertz [00:02:32] I think it's like this weird, I've started getting put in a category like I'm a creative person. It just feels creative, it doesn't, it feels less like an act, or like something you do and more just an approach to things. I don't know. I mean, I've had other jobs where I wasn't really creative because you didn't have the space for it, and I... I know, it feels more like a state of being than a doing.
Speaker 2 [00:03:07] So when you had that first sort of spur, I wanna talk very much about what you're doing now, but just to kind of set that up. Your first shitty robot that spurred all this thing, can you talk about what drove you to make that?
Simone Giertz [00:03:22] So I started getting interested in building things. I started programming and I remember just being mind blown by the possibilities that opened up. And then from there I started getting interested into electronics and hardware. And I remember, I actually started applying to go to MIT and I was like, maybe I should become an electrical engineer, but then I was like, nah, I'm gonna see if I can get a job where I can paid to learn, so. I landed an internship in San Francisco where I was a maker in residence. So my job was just to use their electronics platform to build different cool projects and write tutorials about it. And that was kind of the perfect school because it was very hands-on. I just got to make a bunch of stuff. I was in a team of engineers that I could ask all my questions. But I remember that I had all these ideas for projects that were more out there that I wanted to build. I want to build a popcorn helmet. And I remember one of the engineers was like, but why? What's the point? And that completely deflated my confidence. So I started building other stuff outside of work where I felt like I didn't have to explain myself to anyone. So I built a toothbrush helmet. It was a skateboard helmet. It had a robot arm, like kind of like a unicorn horn and a toothbrush and it brushed my teeth. And I filmed a seven second clip of it working and that was kind of the start of it all. Tail as old as time, you know, you build a toothbrush helmet and then, yeah, and then here we are. Heard it all before.
Speaker 2 [00:04:59] We've all been there. Yeah, you've all be there, you cruelly. Well, okay, so you made that one, and then you made more and made more. What would kind of describe that feeling for me that kind of built on itself?
Simone Giertz [00:05:13] You know, I was just, my mantra for then, and like still my mantra, is if I find it interesting, there are probably other people who do too. So I didn't have like an end goal with it. I wasn't like, oh, this toothbrush helmet is gonna do something. It was just like, oh, I think that's kind of fun and interesting. And I posted it online and it started blowing up. So I just kept on building these projects I did. I built an alarm clock that slapped me in the face to wake me up, that one was big. I did a breakfast robot, so I programmed a robot arm to very poorly pour milk and cereal and try to spoon feed me breakfast. But yeah, it was very motivating to have people be excited about it, or making people laugh. Like I just, it feels like one of the most honest ways to take up space is to make people laugh
Speaker 2 [00:06:13] Was that the purpose of all this series of, you know, do you call shitty inventions?
Simone Giertz [00:06:19] I think building shitty robots or kind of whimsical weird projects was a way for me to not have my performance anxiety get in the way because you know you sit and you wait for an idea that's good enough to justify being spent time on or like spending time on and I knew that I would just never start so I would be like oh that sounds like, fine, I wonder what that would look like. That was kind of the way that I approached it, because it's also really daunting. Like learning about robotics, it's hard. Like it's really tricky. And the way that I got myself through it was just cutting myself a lot of slack. And I think that's, people set the bar way too high for themselves and it gets in the way of even starting.
Speaker 2 [00:07:07] Do you think that that is, in some way, a very pure form of creativity, in that you didn't have a... You didn't really have an end goal. You were just... I wonder what if.
Simone Giertz [00:07:18] I think it's, I mean I think of it less as creativity and more as just play. It's just playing, it's doing something for the sake of doing it. It doesn't have to have a good reason or when we, when we grow up we become so guarded around our time and you have to really have a reason why you want to do something and I was just like, I think this is worthwhile. I don't know and I still, like now it's so much easier to justify for myself to and time on. Projects because I can make a video about it or I can turn it into a product but I still feel guilty sometimes when I'm building something that I don't have a clear end goal with but those have been some of my best projects that I've ever done and often when I stumble on something new it's just kind of falling that curiosity.
Speaker 3 [00:08:08] But you suggest that as you grow up, people lose the ability to do that. So is there something about being a kid and being creative that sort of works in a magical way?
Simone Giertz [00:08:21] I think the biggest difference between being a kid and a grown up in this, it's not that you lose the ability to play, but it's like the time when it's okay to be bad at things is kind of over when you're grown up. I think about drawing, like when we were kids we all drew and then you stop unless you're like really good at it and now I'm not good at drawing and whenever I have an impulse to draw there's almost this reluctance because I'm good at and I'm embarrassed about it. So, I think that's the main thing of just like... It's not okay to suck at things, and how are you gonna get good at it?
Speaker 2 [00:08:58] We know you had that space as a kid to play, was that how you described the environment growing up?
Simone Giertz [00:09:06] I grew up in a very playful environment, it was just like a very supportive environment and where I had a lot of autonomy. Like I was a free-range child, I was just, I mean we grew up with horses and I was always just running around in the horse paddock and collecting little rocks and shit. But I was really able to make my own decisions and my own mistakes. I don't know. I mean, I started dressing myself as early as I could ever think and like. I don't know, I very rarely had other people make decisions over in my head.
Speaker 2 [00:09:47] So, have we talked a bit about it? The creativity of the shitty inventions to get into now and this sort of sea change that you're having in terms of the product, the final product that you're aiming for.
Speaker 4 [00:10:06] Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 [00:10:07] Can you talk about that transition? What happened to making these kind of humorous devices to making sort of functional design?
Simone Giertz [00:10:16] So I started out just making, like, really shitty robots and then as my skills grew and as I got older as well I started getting more and more interested in kind of functional pieces and I think the projects I build still have, I don't want to use the word whimsical, but they still have a whimsical quality to it, like I still think that there's sense of humor in them. But I get so much more enjoyment out of actually trying to do it properly. But I think honestly, the shitty robot part of it, a lot of that was also the stress of video production. I always felt like I had to finish the build as quickly as possible. I didn't really have time to think of a smarter or more elegant solution. It was just like, no, it's good enough for camera. And now I've really given myself the time. To just finish stuff well and to take the time to learn new skills and not rush through it. And I think that's really, to me that's the definition of like, that's my definition of luxury is like I'm able to take that time. Do stuff the way I want to. And it's, you know, as your business grows and as your team grows, it's really easy to have other people take over different parts of your job. And it would be very easy for me to have somebody else come and execute some of my builds and designs. And I do have people come and help sometimes, but that's like the part that I really, really don't wanna let go of is I wanna be the one actually holding the tools and actually doing it, cause it's to me, it's the core of it. And it the part of it that I've really, really love.
Speaker 5 [00:11:58] Probably just get a quick definition of what were the shitty robots, because we don't even know what they are.
Simone Giertz [00:12:04] I got a line, yeah. For shitty robots, it was still solving everyday problems. And when I built shitty robots it was solving everyday problems in the most ridiculous way I could think of. Like I made an alarm clock that slapped me in the face to wake me up. And what I'm doing now is still finding those inconveniences in life. But it's like, okay, how can I do this in a way that makes sense and in a that I haven't seen done before?
Speaker 3 [00:12:35] You don't just have one other thing to follow up on there, I'm sorry Simone, but they gave you a monitor. You became known as something, which is a queen of shit. Cheaty robots, yeah. Maybe just tell us that so we can get at it.
Simone Giertz [00:12:46] Yep. You good on that plane?
Speaker 3 [00:12:50] Yeah, I just want to ask you, I'll ask you the questions. We have a plane, we have a plan. Yeah. A plane, oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. I think you meant the level. No, no, no.
Simone Giertz [00:12:57] Yeah.
Speaker 2 [00:12:58] I'm good on that plane?
Simone Giertz [00:12:59] You're good on that plane? Yeah, so what dimension do you want me to speak about this in? People on the internet started referring to me as the queen of shitty robots, which I embraced. I think it was said in a loving way. I was proud of it. It actually started, I posted my projects on Reddit and there's a subreddit called slash r slash shitty robots. So people started calling me the queen of slash r, slash shitty, robots. And then the slash r kind of dropped out at some point. And now it's. I don't think of myself as that anymore. There's actually, yeah, on the Wired cover, there's like the sub, the not headline, but the sub headline is like why she renounced her crown or why the Queen of Shady Robots renounced her crown, so I guess I've done that.
Speaker 2 [00:13:58] We've heard from a lot of people that we talked to from... The process of it is to solve it. Do you feel like you were solving it then in the same way you're solving it now? I feel like your really solving problems now. And do you feel that's, do you agree with that assessment of what creativity is?
Simone Giertz [00:14:27] For me, it's in part solving problems, but...
Speaker 2 [00:14:31] Can you say creative? Yeah.
Simone Giertz [00:14:32] Yeah, for me creativity is in part like solving problems, but it's more just I mean What I'm doing now is more finding minor inconveniences in life. I mean, like how can I do this better or differently? I Don't know. I don't think that there always needs to be a problem to solve creativity can just be making something beautiful doesn't always have to be solution oriented and It can just Be things that are for the sake of being
Speaker 2 [00:15:03] Is it to evoke an emotion, though?
Simone Giertz [00:15:05] Hmm To me, creativity is. Or what I wanna achieve is people looking at the stuff I do and say, huh, I hadn't thought about that before. That's the kind of the emotion I'm going for and just being like, oh, yeah, I hadn, I had a thought about.
Speaker 2 [00:15:31] You're sort of sharing something with people out there, because I think you have that feeling for yourself when you make something. You make something that you thought of and it never existed.
Simone Giertz [00:15:41] On.
Speaker 2 [00:15:42] Does that connect you to other people, especially with the internet? You don't have to talk about YouTube specifically, but using the internet as a platform, do you feel you're connecting to people through your creativity in that way?
Simone Giertz [00:15:54] Nah, it's just to pay the bill. I mean, of course it's fun to be able to show people stuff, but it's not like I'm running a thriving community. I'm very just like, hey, I made a thing.
Speaker 2 [00:16:09] Well, so tell me what's next. I mean, you have renounced your crown, so what is the next move?
Simone Giertz [00:16:17] The thing about, so like right now the core of my business is social media, I guess the technical term would be influencer, different companies sponsor my videos and I talk about their products for a minute and a half in the middle of a video. The thing about doing social media is there's not really a graceful way to step away from it. And I always felt like, for me, it's really important to feel like I always have a way out. If I wake up in the morning and I'm like, I don't wanna do this anymore, I know that there's a way. And also, when I went through really severe health problems and I realized that I have built a company that if I can't be in front of the camera or on stage, everything stops and that's just not feasible. So... The future for me is I want to run an innovation house and I'm starting my own product business where some of the inventions and things I made on my YouTube channel are actually turned into real products and that is... I'm so excited. It feels like, you know, there's just not... I don't know how to have a long career on social media. I'm running out of narcissism where I'm like, I don't want to do this until I retire. And thinking of kind of having these two businesses go hand in hand and eventually transitioning full time to just making prototypes and building things still, yeah, still making things, still solving problems. But now the end goal isn't a YouTube video, it's finding a product that I can manufacture.
Speaker 2 [00:17:54] What does that make you feel, the idea that you're going to sell something that makes somebody's life better? You take away those minor inconveniences.
Simone Giertz [00:18:03] You know, I don't really think of like, oh, I really want to help customers with a specific problem. It's very self-centered, to be totally honest. That's not the mental image that I have of like, oh, there's gonna be everyday calendars in everyone's living room. No, it's just like, I get to explore stuff and make things that don't exist until I make them and that's really the driving force behind it. And then if people wanna buy it, that's great.
Speaker 2 [00:18:38] Very pure.
Simone Giertz [00:18:39] I don't know if it is pure. I feel like in some way it should be like, I wanna make people's lives better. No, I'm just having a good time.
Speaker 3 [00:18:47] What does it feel like when you make something, I thought what you just said was really, it means a lot to me at least. What does feel like to make something that hasn't existed before? How do you feel when you've done it?
Simone Giertz [00:19:00] To me, one of the most empowering feelings is like having this idea in your head or you have a sketch, and then suddenly it exists in real life. It's that that process just never ceases to be magical. It's just, it's the best feeling. And also when you find something that like, when you an idea that doesn't really exist in the world and it's just, you know, I've had recently a lot of these projects that I've built and I'm like, I cannot believe this is not a thing. I must have missed it. Somebody must have done this a thousand things over and then, no, I can't find anyone who've done it and that's just like, then it feels like you really struck gold.
Speaker 3 [00:19:43] So you're always happy when it's done.
Simone Giertz [00:19:46] When I'm done with the project.
Speaker 3 [00:19:48] Yeah, when it's built.
Simone Giertz [00:19:50] I mean, of course, sometimes the project itself falls short of my expectations. It's always...but mostly I've been really happy with the projects I've built recently. I don't think I've ever been so, like, content with the things I make. Of course, you're always, like...you're always seeing the blemishes or the faults where you're like, ah, if I pulled another rev, I would solve that problem. I just, I just feel so fortunate. It's, it sounds really cheesy, but I, I, you know, sometimes it feels like I just zoom out and I'm like, how did I end up here? How did this become my life? Like, how do I have this much creative freedom? And it just, I feel like my life is like a golden ticket and I don't know how I. Got here, you know, the Internet. I owe it a lot.
Speaker 2 [00:20:58] I think part of the idea that Louie's bringing up, too, is we talk about when we finish a project, finish a film.
Speaker 4 [00:21:03] Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 [00:21:03] There's just a bit of sadness about it because the excitement was the potential and the process and when it's done it exists, it is finite. Do you feel any of that? You seem to go back to projects like we're witnessing today.
Simone Giertz [00:21:20] Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 [00:21:21] Is there an element of that?
Simone Giertz [00:21:22] I think when I finish a project I'm almost always just happy that it's done because then I've already fallen in love with the next idea. And the thing is if I get sad about having to move on from the next project I know that I can always get back to it and I can work on it more later and yeah. I don't know I think the content cycles and the kind of production cycles that I project depression.
Speaker 2 [00:21:56] And talking about the idea of perfection is... Two ideas separately. So, do you consider yourself a perfectionist?
Simone Giertz [00:22:09] I think I used to be a perfectionist. I'm a rehabilitated perfectionist, but you know, it's something that seeps into other things in my life, so I used be obsessed with performance and grades, and now it's, you know I really want a video to be perfect, or getting it as good as I possibly can before I post it, or I almost never post on social media because I'm like, ah, it has to be better, it has be. More interesting, or catchier, or wittier. So it definitely seeps into other parts of my life, but I don't feel I have a lot more room to breathe than I did when I was a teenager. Don't we all though.
Speaker 2 [00:22:55] How do you make, how do you name where your boobs are?
Simone Giertz [00:22:58] Perfectionism is just really restrictive and, you know, it doesn't let you roll around. And now I just feel like I can kind of... Yeah, I have a lot more room to figure it out. I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 [00:23:18] No, I think it does, because you've had a bit of an evolution in your career here, as this relates to the idea of failure as a kind of part of the process of creativity.
Simone Giertz [00:23:30] Yeah.
Speaker 2 [00:23:32] You're prototyping, there's going to be things that don't work, can you talk about how failure works in your process?
Simone Giertz [00:23:38] I think just as perfectionism, failure has kind of shifted in its meaning for me before failure was, yeah, me failing to do something or failing to get a good grade or failing to perform in some way. Now it's like failure can be... I don't know, putting something out that I'm not really proud of, having a video not perform as well as I wanted it to, um... Yeah, just not being able to pull off a project, but then it's like... It's such a free flowing process, it's such an elongated process that failure feels like a dead end. Like, it's like when you get to the point where you're like, okay, I cannot explore this anymore, I've led people astray, or whatever, but then it's, like, there's always another turn you can take if you still wanna make it work.
Speaker 2 [00:24:35] It's tied to me to the idea you mentioned before about how when you're a kid you draw, you don't think about whether you're good or bad, and that kind of comes as you grow older. Our approach to failure changes in that way too.
Simone Giertz [00:24:48] Yeah.
Speaker 2 [00:24:49] Do you feel like that's a message you want to share with people, that the idea of failure is... There is no dead end, it's just a part of the prototyping that leads to the final.
Simone Giertz [00:25:09] I mean, of course there's still failure, but it's like... It's so baked into the build process. There's no way to build and things not go wrong, that it's an inevitable part of it. But I'm really trying to rack my brain for like what feels like failure now, like when does it feel like I fail work-wise? But I'm not sure, like it doesn't, not a lot of stuff feels like it. But it's also in some way, I'm, the thing is it's like as long as I'm really proud of what I'm doing, then that's what I always try to get back to, like then I don't really fail because even if the video doesn't well, does well or the project doesn't do well, I was really happy with it and proud of it so then the other stuff doesn't matter as much. Of course I have bad fucking days, I'm not going to pretend like I'm some... I don't know, like, oh, I'm above failure, but I really, it's not something I think about a lot anymore.
Speaker 2 [00:26:18] Do you feel like you have an interesting perspective having come from another country from Sweden being in America? Do you do you feel there's a difference in culturally? Around the world how that idea of failure or prototyping or play as a child is approached
Simone Giertz [00:26:36] I think Americans are a lot more obsessed with winning and like being a winner and being successful. In Sweden, I mean, you see in like the school system, there's almost never competition. Like you don't really compete and there's so much focus on working well in teams. Like there's a lot of group assignments and stuff like that. I mean I remember when I applied for internships in the States and in my school they said, okay, everybody's applying for an internship in the States. Brag three times as much as you're comfortable with, because that will kind of get you up to the America standard. Um yeah but i mean for me honestly failure no no i know failure is when i'm really cranky and nasty or like if i feel like i'm kind of not treating people well that hits me a lot harder we're like if I if I impose a really tight deadline on myself and that gets me stressed and I get cranky with my dog, like... That feels like a huge failure. But it's more just, I just really want to be a good person. There's a lot of power that comes with running a business and having a team and having people look up to you online. And I just really wanna be responsible with that power.
Speaker 2 [00:28:05] You sort of exemplify this just as a case of is what it's going to be. Now you've come back. What is it about it that made you...
Simone Giertz [00:28:24] The companion chair. I do come back to old projects a lot if it's something that I wanna turn into a product. So I build a project, I make a YouTube video about it and then if it sticks with me and I'm like, I think this is something that we could manufacture and other people would find interesting, then I will go through a lot more revs and the thing is though, any project that you wanna turn it into a project you're eventually gonna start hating. There's just no way around it because you spend so much time thinking about it and you get all the issues that they have or I mean the everyday calendar, I love it. I'm so proud of it. I also hate it. A very difficult child. I don't have any kids, and if I did, I probably wouldn't hate them, but...
Speaker 2 [00:29:15] Can you tell me a little bit more about that thought? It's a wonderful piece that's obviously gotten attention.
Simone Giertz [00:29:21] Of just starting to hate things who turn into a product.
Speaker 2 [00:29:24] The everyday calendar.
Simone Giertz [00:29:26] The everyday calendar, it's just, you know, any issue that a product might have, you're gonna get a hundred times over. I mean, that was my first product that I put out. It's a very ambitious one. It's pretty complex one. It has electronics. It has over 300, I mean it has over 365 LEDs. You just have to spend way more time with it than you want to when there's everything from like, oh, they messed up packaging or. This doesn't work out or the screws are specked wrong. Like it's just the most troubled relationship you could ever imagine. And I mean, then you have simpler projects like these rings that I made. So it's a Phillips head screwdriver ring and a screw ring that kind of couples perfectly into it. This we've probably only done 10 prototypes of and these I kind of still like. They don't, looking at them, they don't give me anxiety. But any other stuff, you're just like, oh.
Speaker 2 [00:30:28] Do you think that's part of the losing the sense of play when you get older is that things have to pay the rent, things have other issues attached to them than just making the thing itself?
Simone Giertz [00:30:39] You know, it's like making videos or turning things into a product, it's kind of means to an end, or it's, like, this is what I have to do to justify and fund me being able to creatively explore different things and build prototypes and stuff like that. Um, so sometimes you're like, yeah, of course you're, like I wish I didn't have to do this, like those can be the parts of it that feel like work, but I also know if I didn't have that, I wouldn't do it. I need an excuse. I, as much as I preach like, oh, spend time and like explore your creativity. It's fine if you don't have an end goal. I know for myself, it really can soothe some of those like doubtful voices in my head if I'm like, no, I'm doing it because I want to explore it as a product. So I think it's a push and pull. It's like having a deadline. It can be great because it gets, makes you get stuff done. It can also be a pain in the ass because you're like, oh, I have to get stuff.
Speaker 2 [00:31:39] So having a totally blank canvas.
Simone Giertz [00:31:42] Oh, I couldn't do it. I think if I didn't have, if I just had a workshop, I mean, I think I would still make things because I would make stuff for my house and like that's, I spend my weekends fixing little things around the house or inventing things for the house. But it is nice to, you know, have a point in some way. I think, I'm not immune to it as much as I think you don't need a point. It is soothing in some way to have a reason to do stuff. Otherwise, it's like you're at the end of a video game and you're just walking around.
Speaker 2 [00:32:23] It's a great analogy.
Speaker 6 [00:32:24] Just ask me a quick question. Is there something that you have always wanted to do, but you're somehow unable to do it? Or do you feel like there's a, you know, maybe this isn't your strong suit, but boy, you really wish it.
Simone Giertz [00:32:42] Creatively, I mean because I wanted to go to space That was probably the one thing that I wasn't able to do yet Creatively I mean, it's not, I don't think that there's anything creatively where I'm like, I'm not able to do this even though I would want to. I think there's more stuff that the time isn't right. I wanna write a book eventually, but the time isn't, right? But I think there will be a time for all those things.
Speaker 2 [00:33:18] And I put this maybe in a different way, you evolved from what you were doing before to this innovation house, which is now your next venture. If you think forward 10 years, 20 years, do you imagine you will continue to evolve that you'll never really settle in on one thing?
Simone Giertz [00:33:38] I think my business might evolve over the next couple of decades, but I think the core of it will always be building things and making things and solving problems. I have never felt so at home as I do now. Also, I mean the context is before I did this, I had tried out so many different jobs and so many different lines of work. I mean, I was. A journalist, and then I worked at a daycare, and then, I was an MMA reporter, and then was an editor for Sweden's official website, and then studied physics for a year, and then went to advertising school for a years. Like, I just tried on, it felt like trying on all these different pants, and being like, ah, yeah, I guess I could do this. But once I started making things, it was just, like, yeah this is it. This is really. What I wanna spend my life doing, there's just, I can't imagine what else I would do. Maybe I'd write a feature film, or a book. That would be fun. But I think I'm always gonna build things. It's just ingrained into who I am. I don't know.
Speaker 3 [00:34:53] My question was... What kind of creative person do you admire?
Simone Giertz [00:35:09] I mean, I tend to admire people who do things that I'm not really good at, I don't know. Musicians, I'm just like, how do you choose what sounds to put in a song? There are just so many sounds, and I'm like, even just starting to think of that. Or like, people who are really talented illustrators or graphic designers, and I always feel like I'm kind of going into the... Dark when I do that. I'm just like, how do you know that that's the right font or that's the right color? How do you have that decisiveness? But then I know I have that decisiveness when it comes to building things. And I'm like, no, that's the way it should be. And it just, you know, it's just this intuition that kind of resonates through your core. I guess that's a good feeling. I think I also really admire People who are kind of in the same field as I and who make, you know it's often when I see projects where I'm like, ah, damn, I wish I had made that. And it's something nifty, it's a fun twist on something, it's really simple but effective design. Yeah, and just master crafts people.
Speaker 2 [00:36:21] Can I just ask you to expound on that idea, which I love so much, of like, that gut feeling, like, you know, round peg and round whole thing that happens when you know you've just hit the mark.
Simone Giertz [00:36:33] Yeah.
Speaker 2 [00:36:33] That is not a technical, doesn't feel like that's an analytical thing, right?
Simone Giertz [00:36:40] I think a creative gut feeling, for me it's, you know, just those things where you can so clearly see in your head what you want it to be, and for me that's like having an idea of a design and I'm like, okay, that's the way it needs to be. But I also have that for videos, where I can see clearly the video and how it should be as we're filming it and I'll transition from this part to this part, and that's like the exact, there's no debate about it, like that's exactly the way that be. And then in other areas I can be so indecisive or undecisiveness and I'll like try out a hundred different things and I will be so insecure about it and you know it's interesting I just and I admire people who have decisiveness in the areas where I'm undecissive, indecissed. What's the damn American English, English in general? It's a tricky language you know, you don't make it easy for us.
Speaker 2 [00:37:36] I don't like claim the English person. Wasn't my fault. I have a couple other thoughts I just want to run by and we can kind of take a pause. Not ever po of the specific work you're doing, just really broadly speaking on the idea of art and science. This is very much what the whole show we're doing is about. Do you have thoughts about... They are one in the same in many ways. How do you feel about that?
Simone Giertz [00:38:12] I watched this episode, I watched this documentary about country music versus hip hop and how they kind of tracked it down to that they have the same route. And it was just the, they kind of divided into black people and white people but it came from the same source. And I feel like in some way that's with art and science it's just a necessary division that happened at some point. And to me, both art and science It's all about trying to see things differently and trying to see it in a new way.
Speaker 2 [00:38:48] I think the goal is the same for both.
Simone Giertz [00:38:52] It's exploration, which is a common denominator as well. Experimenting, and yeah, just trying to find something new.
Speaker 3 [00:39:08] You used the word curiosity.
Simone Giertz [00:39:11] Thank you for leading.
Speaker 3 [00:39:16] No, just adding it to the mix. I think you totally nailed it, what you just said.
Simone Giertz [00:39:22] No, yeah, there's an element of curiosity in both of them. You happy?
Speaker 3 [00:39:33] I don't want you to be a producer anymore.
Speaker 7 [00:39:36] Yeah.
Speaker 2 [00:39:38] I'd also love just, just as a solo interview, I'd love to just get a thought about your mom and talk about what an inspiration she's been to with her out of earshot here.
Simone Giertz [00:39:48] Yeah.
Speaker 2 [00:39:50] Yeah, tell us how you really feel. I really hear that.
Simone Giertz [00:39:56] I think a lot of my personality traits come from my mom. My mom's like water and she always finds another way to go. She is incredibly lazy and very good at finding ways to not have to do hard work. And I mean that in a really nice way, like it's impressive the lengths which she will go to to not have to do something. I should say something nicer about my mom. No, she's great. She's just, you know, she just, when I tell people about her, it almost sounds like I'm making stuff up because she sounds so unlikely. She's somebody who used to kind of be the face of like the paranormal community in Scandinavia, and she's an author. She used to have this like column. When we grew up, she was a journalist and she used to this column of like asking people kind of like sassy questions. And then she was a TV host before that in the 90s where she was kind of a late night host together with two other people and she was known for having big boobs. Like she's done it all and now she's like retired and she's making techno and has been like DJing and has a SoundCloud account. Like who is she? I don't even know and I was like born by her. She's just a marvel and she keeps on just exploring things.
Speaker 2 [00:41:35] What lessons, what messages does that give you?
Simone Giertz [00:41:38] I think it just gave me a lot of permission to keep on trying new things. Like never did they expect me to kind of like hone in on a career path and be like, no, you've got to decide. I mean, I didn't decide what I wanted to do until I was 25 and that's just because they built a toothbrush helmet, I kind of just stumbled upon it. Yeah, and I think that there's always, you know, what you do and what you spend your time on or how you make money is, it's not static. And that I really got from my mom. It's very, you can reinvent yourself as many times as you want.
Speaker 2 [00:42:16] I love that thought. I want to pick up one thing, unless anyone has another question. We lost the sun back there. Yeah, just real last thought, real last thought, just so we have it, can you just, specifically nitty-gritty, what was it that you were doing to the chair today? Just tell us about it.
Simone Giertz [00:42:35] Do you want me to talk about the companion chair as a concept? I'll take it from you. You can cut in. Yeah. So a while back, I built a chair that has a seat, both for my dog and me, and a little staircase so she can get up and down by herself. I built that prototype, and it was a couple of months ago, and I've kind of lived with it, and my main complaint about it is the backrest, and I want to try out another type of backrest on it and see if that would be more comfortable. So I found this chair on the side of the road, and I was like, I don't feel okay about slaughtering that, because somebody just threw it out. It was a pile of mud. I'm just going to try to, in a very brutal way, switch in this and just early evaluation and see if this could be a design direction to go.
full interview_simone giertz_2.mp4
Simone Giertz [00:00:00] So this is my mom. I was gonna say of 31 years, but that's probably self-explanatory. Yeah.
Simone’s Mom [00:00:09] I've been her mom all her life.
Simone Giertz [00:00:11] Yeah, she's been my mom all my life and actually nine months prior to that and we hadn't seen each other in two years because of the pandemic and because I had some visa trouble and I wasn't to leave the U.S. But then, yeah, she flew here as soon as she could.
Simone’s Mom [00:00:29] As soon as they let go of the restriction. Yeah. I can.
Speaker 3 [00:00:35] Mom, what do you think of what Simone does here with her days?
Simone’s Mom [00:00:41] I think it's fantastic and if you could get the question in, yeah well what Simone does here I think is truly fantastic and I'm so proud of that she's not limited by her limitations. There are so many people who say that I can't do this or that because I never learnt is that the word to do it but you do it and then you learn it and that's that's a kind bravery and I really appreciate that.
Simone Giertz [00:01:10] I don't let my incompetence get in the way. Exactly. Thank you, thank you.
Simone’s Mom [00:01:12] Exactly. Thank you, thank you. That was the words I was looking for. I'm a bit jet-lagged and tired.
Speaker 3 [00:01:20] So how would you sort of describe the work that she does?
Simone’s Mom [00:01:26] Now? Well, now it's serious, and in the beginning... Get the question into the answer. Oh, sorry. Well, the work she does now has become very serious compared to in the begining, when she just made fun things, and I think also this way of evolving with doing one thing and then getting a bit bored of that and going in other direction is super cool, and I'm so impressed by the things she does because they're so high quality.
Simone Giertz [00:01:55] I feel like evolving is always what I saw you do. Like you would always do, like one year was never the same as the next one.
Simone’s Mom [00:02:03] But the difference between us is that everything I do is sort of a bit sloppy and goes very fast and it's rather funny, but you do like this table, that's a serious piece of work.
Speaker 4 [00:02:14] Hold on a second. I think this is off. Oh, oops.
Speaker 5 [00:02:18] I'm getting the sound of my instrument, and you're getting the shotcodes.
Speaker 3 [00:02:26] So just on that, can you just tell us briefly a bit about your backgrounds and kind of understand
Simone’s Mom [00:02:35] M-m-my brah
Speaker 5 [00:02:38] Right, right, right.
Simone’s Mom [00:02:40] My background is sort of scattered. I was really into being a mother. And I enjoyed that so much. And her father, I have three kids. He worked like 90 hours a week. So I had a lot of time being a mom. And then I worked with just what was easy. And I started writing articles. I had sort of a talent for that. So I could do it very quickly when they slept. And then I've written four novels. And I started hosting TV shows, because when they asked me, I didn't want to be a coward. But I really hate cameras. And then I kept on doing that for like 25 years, maybe. And then, I got really tired, and I quit working. And then. I started doing music, like techno music, electronic music. And now, I made music to a movie that's been on a museum for three months, big museum. And also it's going to be in this big church on Gotland that I'm looking, when I come home I'm going there, I'm so looking forward to that so much. Imagine sitting there, hearing your music, playing in a church with this.
Speaker 3 [00:03:50] So an incredibly creative mom, Simone, can you talk about growing up under that roof and what kind of environment that was for you to learn and grow in?
Simone Giertz [00:04:02] Just wait for the plane to come. Yeah, I'm all in for it. I just think it's funny because it's like you're like, oh, I just did whatever was easy, and it's still really ambitious things, but you're.
Simone’s Mom [00:04:22] Ask your father.
Simone Giertz [00:04:24] You're just always like, oh, this will be easy. Can I do something properly for once? Yeah, no.
Simone’s Mom [00:04:30] I get a lot of things done. Sorry.
Simone Giertz [00:04:32] You do get a lot of things done. I think growing up, I think you just gave a lot of permission for things. Like both you and dad, I felt like I never had to, I don't know, I was always like allowed to kind of tear up my bedroom. I remember my sister and I started tearing off the wallpapers off of the wall because we used it as gift wrapping. And you guys were like, oh, it was overdue to change out anyway. So I feel like it was very permissive in that sense and that you guys just always encouraged our hobbies and our interests.
Simone’s Mom [00:05:02] Remember when you did like toilet paper all over every furniture and you had to climb like laser beams maybe it was and we let it stay for quite a long time and we're climbing up and down
Simone Giertz [00:05:13] Yeah.
Simone’s Mom [00:05:14] Moving around.
Simone Giertz [00:05:15] No, I just always like it wasn't. I don't know, I remember meeting other grown-ups and they would say stuff like, Oh, you'll understand when you're older. What a cop-out. Just try to explain to me, and you're like five. And I feel like you guys just always took the time to explain stuff. And if it was something that we weren't allowed to do, it was because you could explain or articulate the reason in some way. There weren't just arbitrary and necessary rules.
Simone’s Mom [00:05:52] And if you can't explain it, you're probably wrong. The worst thing to say, you should obey me because I'm grown up, or your mother, I think that sucks. I will never say that. And sometimes you tell your kids they have to do something because you just think that's the way it is, and they question it, and then you start thinking about it, and it's like, yeah, why? So you give them the benefit of changing your mind, and that makes them growing into responsible grownups who don't have to oppose. Because they're used to thinking themselves.
Simone Giertz [00:06:26] I think it's always like, you know, as somebody who has a kind of unconventional job, I feel like some people think of that I was, you know, like rebellious in some way. I'm the opposite of rebellious because I never had to be. It's your brother who's rebellious, who went to school. He's in venture capital now. Oh, shit. Yeah, that's-
Simone’s Mom [00:06:47] Yeah, that's so rebellious!
Simone Giertz [00:06:48] But it was like I never had anything to rebel against because you guys are just like okay as long as it doesn't hurt you or anybody else And I don't think I could have done it like I I don't think I couldn't gone against what you Wanted, but you always just wanted me to be happy
Simone’s Mom [00:07:07] or the one you.
Speaker 5 [00:07:11] Well, she always taking stuff apart and putting it together. And look at Chris.
Simone’s Mom [00:07:15] Simone was not really taking things apart and putting them back together, but she was, at that time, you had twice a year in the villa suburb, people put out their dump on the street and then came a garbage man collecting it and they were on possible treasures there for treasure hunters. So I remember when you came home with a parable and you made a chair of it. Like a satellite dish? Yeah, satellite dish, yeah. So more like getting things home and I also remember you made a three-dimensional painting with you glued corks and spoons and stuff on it I was so impressed yeah she was she was a kid yeah and I have poems you write when you wrote when you were really I should not read them maybe they were so cool Yeah.
Simone Giertz [00:08:05] I think I wasn't like obsessed with Lego or picking apart machines or anything like that. Cause I think, I never thought that that was really a possibility. Like my brother was always technical and interested in computers and that stuff. I was like doing a lot of little wood projects. I like, I made little little statues and stuff. You made a robot? Oh yeah, no, I, I've made a robot out of wood, but that was, yeah. But it was mostly, I didn't come. Like I didn't realize until I was maybe 20 something where I was like, oh, I can actually like learn how to build things. And then I got a houseboat and that was kind of my place of experimenting.
Speaker 3 [00:08:52] Are you inspired by your mom?
Simone Giertz [00:08:55] I'm very inspired by my mom. What could you say when I sit there beside you? No, but I mean, it is, it's like. It's not just inspired, but like... I feel very supported by you and cheered on by you and like, I don't know, I'm just very happy to have that in my life.
Simone’s Mom [00:09:22] And I'm inspired by you.
Simone Giertz [00:09:25] But you're always, you're so good at reinventing yourself and being like, you always land on your feet. And I think that's what's really like, you're very good at turning things into a benefit. You always find the like upside of a situation and I think, that's something that I've gotten in a trait that I'm really happy for is like, okay, this situation is not what I would have chosen for myself, but there's gotta be some upside to it and I'm gonna find that one and that's what I'm going to focus on. Like there's an opportunity in almost any situation and I feel like I got that from you.
Simone’s Mom [00:10:00] That's the key to surviving.
Simone Giertz [00:10:05] Now look at us.
Speaker 3 [00:10:06] Adapting and having the room to play to be creative.
Simone’s Mom [00:10:09] But I have been asked before, because I didn't think the way I was with my kids was unconventional, because to me it was just natural. And then I tried to sort of think about it a couple of years ago, what had been important. And I boiled it down to three things. Trying to love them enough to make them love themselves and others. Trying to give them enough courage to take the opportunities that fly around all the time that you may not think you can take. And try to give the stability. To handle the hardships that everybody will encounter. And I think that's sort of if I had to write a very short book, that would be. Would be.
Simone Giertz [00:10:49] Chapter one, chapter two, and chapter three.
Simone’s Mom [00:10:50] Yeah, parenting. Applog. Yeah.
Speaker 3 [00:10:54] And do you, you know, we saw you give notes on the editing and we see you working together on the camper. Can you talk about your relationship, sort of being directly creative together and how you bounce things off of it?
Simone Giertz [00:11:08] I just, I send videos to you sometimes just to get your input on it because I love you.
Simone’s Mom [00:11:13] And I feel really honored you do and like one out of ten times maybe I have something I think I should say yeah and one of the ten times you think that's a good thing yeah those so one in twenty maybe results yeah something um no but I
Simone Giertz [00:11:29] I think it's, I mean, it's like just value. It's not like I run projects by you or stuff like that, but when you're here, like I'm just so like, oh my God, mom is here. I can talk through these plans that I have for the house with her and get her input on it and yeah.
Simone’s Mom [00:11:54] Yeah, but we don't work together, really. Mostly because since you started working, you're on the other side of the ocean.
Simone Giertz [00:12:00] Yeah.
Simone’s Mom [00:12:02] Cold stop.
Simone Giertz [00:12:03] But I mean, I remember when my, when I started my YouTube channel, then you really like provided me a lot of support and a lot guidance and it was such a relief to, like it can be, it was very overwhelming to go through that journey of like having projects go viral and suddenly have a bunch of followers and have a lot opportunities come in and having seen a mom who was famous and who was so, had such a healthy approach to it. I remember what you said. You're like, Sima, being famous is like having really big boobs. It means that some people want to be with you and some people wanna take photos with you, but it doesn't really say anything about who you are. And that I'm like, okay, it's big boobs
Simone’s Mom [00:12:52] on those wises.
Simone Giertz [00:12:53] No, it's like, yeah, okay. It's the part of who I or how people see me, but it's separate and it doesn't yeah
Speaker 5 [00:13:03] I noticed that, uh, Caroline projects confidence. You told, she goes in and says, okay, the table, we don't need this. And she went into the, into the trailer and sort of immediately made sort of just some executive decisions. I'm sorry about that. No, no, no. Because, because you don't project that at least with, with us. Okay. You seem to be more about questioning. I'm not sure I want to try this out and all that. And she seems to not be like that. So I was wondering, just talk about that and talk to Chris. I could be completely wrong. I won't end on you for hours. Yeah.
Simone’s Mom [00:13:38] I can address that, but one of the challenges for me is like I can be really bossy. I'm quick, so I really want to try to step back and not ... And I'm also your mother.
Simone Giertz [00:13:52] Yeah, bossy is a way that's a word that people use to describe women with leadership qualities. Thank you. Yeah. I have great leadership qualities You're not bossy. Yeah, you do. No, I mean I have this like imprinted memory where mom had designed a house and was running the build site and then you and dad were going to renew your vows when were still married and this like big Excavator came and mom runs out in like boots and a wedding dress and is standing there and like Pointing and being like no come over here. I just like yeah, no you do that They have such a clear image of it, and it's just that's my mom
Simone’s Mom [00:14:38] But what can you do if the digging machine comes when you're sort of having a ceremony? The digging machine always trumps everything else. Trumps, trump, trump.
Simone Giertz [00:14:50] And I think, I mean, I'm decisive when I need to be. I'm not, and if we're having meetings with a team, I'll tell them what I think we should do. It's just, it's hard to have a balance with wanting to listen to people and their needs and being open to that, but then also having clear directions, but.
Speaker 5 [00:15:10] I'm just thinking about the creative process, which as you know, is the centerpiece of what we're doing, and sometimes it takes a certain vision, and you might not even be sure of it, or maybe you are. Sometimes you watch artists and it's like, I have no idea what they're thinking, but I guess they know what they are doing, and it turns out they do, because they're professional artists. So I was wondering if you feel you have a different approach to that than your work.
Simone Giertz [00:15:32] Very I feel like when it comes to creative decisions I'm either super decisive or super indecisive. There's like nothing really in between Because when I have a clear idea of what I want it to be then it's all just about communicating that to other people But then sometimes I can get I mean I've had this like puzzle box that I need to design I sat on it for like six months and I'm just like Are these really the fonts? Is this really the color scheme? Is it good enough? So it really comes down to the type of decisions, because sometimes I'm like, no, of course this is the way it needs to be, because I have such a clear idea of it in my head, so.
Simone’s Mom [00:16:10] And I just go with the flow. If you think of what we've done for jewelry, you have done these rings that I really worked with. And I started wanting to do jewelry in a can. So I just made mold out of clay, and it comes out as it comes. And that's a surprise for everybody. And then I like that because that's the way it came out. So we really have different approaches to doing stuff.
Simone Giertz [00:16:32] I think I got some of the work ethic from my dad.
Simone’s Mom [00:16:35] You're a dad and the goal for me.
Simone Giertz [00:16:40] For sure.
Speaker 3 [00:16:41] That sense of play is sort of still permeated, I think, for both of you, that trying things out and maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but you prototype.
Simone’s Mom [00:16:49] Yeah, for me when I know how to do something, it's not fun anymore, I just wanna...
Simone Giertz [00:16:55] Something new but that's also I think I feel like that's one of the things that I probably don't want to bring with me to my kids is I call it like prodigy complex mm-hmm where I've had this feeling of like it's only fun to do stuff for a year because that's when you will impress people by how short you've done stuff something so I'll start a new sport of people be like oh my god you've only done it for two months and you're this good and then once you're like at a year and they're like oh you've done it four a year yeah that checks out And it's not fun and I feel like that's like if you're not good at it immediately Then it means then it's worth it and now what I really appreciate is like skills That you've worked hard to acquire and like having some grit with it and being like proud. I'm proud that I've built stuff for Seven years now Like I'm really proud of that. I don't have to have this thing of like, oh no I've only done it for six months. So be impressed by how good I am But yeah, I feel like you're definitely wanting to be good at it from the start.
Simone’s Mom [00:17:55] Yeah, we're just exploring something new, but you do have a point.
Simone Giertz [00:17:59] Yeah.
Simone’s Mom [00:18:00] I'm sorry, I didn't mean to... You call it prodigy complex? Yeah. That's a good word. Yeah. I'm so sorry. No, it's fine. It's fine...
Speaker 4 [00:18:08] On that note, as far as creativity, do you think that getting older, going through different stages changes the drive to create? Or do you find just new outlets for it? Because obviously, when you were a teenager, you were doing this. When you were teenager, you were doing that, when were five, you're doing this, now you're in middle age and you're getting with all the other demands of life and confusion, this and that. Do you still want to do it, or do you want to it even more? Or do channel it into something else? Because it's a continuous organic process.
Simone Giertz [00:18:39] I think for me, creativity has changed as I'm getting a little bit older because I have less fucks to give. I want to do stuff, but it's also, I think, going through some health problems and having very little energy and you're just like, no, I want spend my time doing what I really want to. So I feel freer as I get older. But I feel like it goes the opposite way for a lot of people.
Simone’s Mom [00:19:11] For me, I wasn't creative when I was young. I never saw myself as being creative. So it has just, now I feel really creative. You are very creative. I sort of went backwards, I think. No. Yeah. But when you grow old, it's no more fucks to give. That's really good. You're not old yet. How do you know that?
Simone Giertz [00:19:38] I think for me I was so caught up in like being perfect and I was a really ambitious student in school. I would cry if I got to be on a test and that was really limiting and yeah I kind of worked to get through that.
Simone’s Mom [00:19:57] I never gave my kids money for good grades, as most parents do in Sweden. But when Simon came back and really cried because you got a B or an A plus or something on a math test, for the first time I said, okay, if you get a B, I'll give you 500 crowns. If you get an A, you'll get nothing. Because I thought that might take the edge of your... No, it didn't work and I didn't have to pay a dime.
Simone Giertz [00:20:21] The grief ran deeper than that. No, it was funny because I was so, I pushed myself so hard and my parents, because they'd never been like, had any aspirations for me really. You were always like, if you work at a gas station, we'll still be really proud of you. No shame on people who work at gas stations. But, and I was so ambitious and would like push myself so hard and be so sad. And I remember you're always like if you get to be on a test, you don't have to help clean up the kitchen after dinner. Or like you were just trying to like really pamper me because you knew how sad I was and you were trying to get a counterweight to this like deep existential dread I would get if I didn't get a good test result. Yeah. No, I mean, I was suffering a lot through that. And for what end? I mean does it matter what I, that I got to be in Swedish in eighth grade?
Simone’s Mom [00:21:15] It sounds like a joke when we say it, but it was really serious, it was a problem, you were devastated and you pushed yourself so hard.
Simone Giertz [00:21:21] So I would I would cry for so I remember I got to be on a math test and I sat in this like park in Stockholm and like this lady came up and she like gave me a napkin and was like hey it's gonna be okay sweetie and I bet she thought like one of my parents died and I was like I gotta be on the test yeah I don't know I think it was just I conflated like grades with me or like that was the only definition I had of myself, was like. My name is Sima, and I get good grades, and it was how I measured my worthiness or my intelligence and.
Speaker 6 [00:21:58] That was so sad.
Simone Giertz [00:21:59] I was so sad, yeah, and it didn't really let go or give out until I moved to China. So I moved China when I was 16 and I went there as an exchange student for a year. And once I got back from there I was much chiller because I had this other egg to put in my self-confidence basket and I remember that I even got my first C on a chemistry test and I was like, whatever, I speak Mandarin.
Simone’s Mom [00:22:27] That's the way to go. It's been wandering. Solves everything.
Speaker 3 [00:22:32] That's fantastic, do you guys have anything else to say?
Speaker 5 [00:22:36] Let's get a little room time just to be quiet for 20 seconds. I actually have one question for Carolyn. So if you're sitting next to me or somebody on an airplane, and you say, oh, I'm going to visit my daughter in Los Angeles. And I say, well, what does she do? Look at Chris.
Simone’s Mom [00:23:03] When somebody asks me what Simone does, she's so beyond bragging about it, so it's like, I just, well, she is a YouTuber I can say, or she builds stuff. And if I'm really happy to say it, I say Google Simone and you'll see.
Simone Giertz [00:23:22] I do that, too. I'm like, just Google me. No, I don't. Actually, once when I'd forgotten my ID and I needed to get into a bar, I was like...
Speaker 6 [00:23:32] Is there any chance you just want to look at my Wikipedia page that has my age on it? And then I was so embarrassed. But it worked. I got it.
Simone’s Mom [00:23:39] He's like, you know who I am? Oh gosh. Can I come in here, please? Don't you recognize me? No, no.
Simone Giertz [00:23:46] Yeah, I still don't know how to describe it either because I I don't like saying YouTube. Yeah, what do you say about?
Simone’s Mom [00:23:51] What do you say about me? She helps ghosts. She helps dead people.
Simone Giertz [00:23:56] She's the host of a show where they help people who experience that they have problems with ghosts is the most diplomatic way I've found of phrasing it.
Simone’s Mom [00:24:05] To be honest, not a big fan of that. I'm a fan of you though. Yeah, I know.
