full interview_roomful of teeth_3.mp3
Eliza Bagg [00:00:00] I'm Eliza Bagg.
Thann Scoggin [00:00:02] I'm Thann Scoggin and we're members of Roomful of Teeth.
Speaker 3 [00:00:07] Okay, so I'm a producer. I'm an improviser. You guys come into my office and say you're teeth and I say, okay, what's your equal to teeth when it makes it special? I already got three a cappella groups in my in my another one
Speaker 4 [00:00:34] Oh, okay.
Eliza Bagg [00:00:36] Well, Roomful of Teeth is an eight-person chamber vocal ensemble where each person sings their own part and we work primarily with composers who write things specifically for the ensemble so we don't sort of sing existing repertoire. And part of the idea with working with composers to do that is they're taking into account specifically what each voice in the group kind of does sonically and the colors that it likes to explore, so it's kind of diving more deeply into the individual expression of the voice and exploring sort of different colors and places that the voices like to go with this emphasis on individuality, I think within the group, and just sort of discovering things we like to do. We're all classically trained singers, but we like to incorporate. Things that our voices just do either sort of naturally or ways that we've sort of designed our voices to go, places we've designed our voices, to go into as we sort of play around and yeah.
Thann Scoggin [00:01:45] I think one of the things that separates Room Full of Teeth from a lot of the other even small chamber vocal ensembles that I've sung with is that Room Full Of Teeth is the only one of them that I know of, and it is certainly the only one that I sing with, where the singers are all close-miked, which I think completely changes the presentation of the I'll see you next time. It completely changes what sort of sounds are actually useful in terms of being able to be communicated to a large audience. I think breath sounds and things like that, that in order to, for an audience that's many, many feet away. The only way for that to be communicated without microphones is in an exaggerated fashion, whereas in a group like ours, where we have a close microphone, you can do that in a normal way, and it can be amplified in a way that is a percussive sound or something like that, that doesn't have to be so performative sounding as it would if you were trying to make that sound acoustically. And I think, you know, if you think of all of the different kinds of sounds that could fall into that category, sounds that would diminish with acoustic space. And think about, as a composer, you have this huge palette of sounds that you normally wouldn't have with singers. That's something that we try to work with and try to discover, try to find new ways to use and new sounds. Yeah, work with that.
Speaker 3 [00:03:32] That's good. I really love that. Can you talk, just in order to kind of make it a little more concise. Composers like, if you want to go ahead and say this, they like to work with us because we can give them this palette of sound. Something along those lines.
Thann Scoggin [00:03:50] Yeah, we want to provide the composers that we work with with a unique palette of sounds that hopefully only we can provide to try to find more interesting, unique sounds in our music.
Speaker 3 [00:04:13] And what are those signs? Can you pick off of them and give me a loop through our catalog?
Cameron Beauchamp [00:04:19] So we think of ourselves as a band, a vocal band, and in our shows, we want to be amplified in a certain way that almost feels like you're at a rock and roll show or a pop show. We travel with an engineer, a sound engineer who's part of our band, and he mixes us and amplifies us to where it's really in your face. And some of the techniques we use or colors that we use are really evocative of rock and roll music or you know belting we do a lot of belting, we do a lot like death metal or heavy metal influenced sounds. The cool thing about our history is that we've collaborated with so many extraordinary singers from different genres or different parts of the world and kind of learned from them what makes them tick inside here, just to get new ideas of sounds. And the beautiful thing about Room Full of Teeth is we're not performing rock and roll music, we're performing music from other cultures or other traditions, we're just being influenced by everything that the human voice can do. And over our 12-year life together, we've all established and created, cultivated all these very unique techniques or styles or colors that you may not find in any other singer's repertoire.
Speaker 3 [00:05:55] You mentioned designing your voice, you used that word. Yeah.
Eliza Bagg [00:05:59] Yes, when I talk about designing your voice, I think what I'm talking about is cultivating a specific sound. You know, based on sort of an esthetic vision, rather than, which I think a lot of us have come from the tradition of, you know classical bel canto singing, where I think you're really trained to try to fit your voice into a very specific mold, which makes sense for that repertoire, since you're trying to sing over a huge orchestra, you kind of have to have a certain kind of vocal production. But I think something that we're very interested in in Roomful of Teeth is all the ways that you can use your voice with different colors and different sounds and then like make choices about what you like both from like an esthetic standpoint and what your body physically likes and the close mic thing of how we're set up which is that we all sing into these close mics makes it possible for us to make choices about that and that I think leads to a more interesting combination of elements. And there's this thing about the individuality of the singer as well coming through, which I think is really important, and is something that I think many of us feel wasn't emphasized in our training in the sort of a classical world, but I think does become more important, especially when we're working with composers. They are interested in the ways in which our voices as individuals like to... Like to meld together, and yeah, I was gonna say also, it makes it possible for us to use these really quiet, nuanced sounds, like even just breath sounds, like ah, ah, and have those be happening at the same time as really bright sounds, ah! You know, have those happening at same time and be blended in the space. And so it comes across to an audience and is mixed as like one full sound.
Speaker 3 [00:08:05] Sound. Music. Is there a difference? Are they the same? Does one at some point become another?
Cameron Beauchamp [00:08:14] That's a great question. I think it's in the, not the eye of the beholder, but the ear of the beholder of the sound or the music. I mean, anything can be interpreted as music or art. Or, you know, I know so many creators are inspired just by hearing random sounds that they want to turn into something or develop into something further.
Thann Scoggin [00:08:38] Yeah, yeah, I feel like, you know, it depends on how, as the listener, how much the listener needs of a particular type of structure to determine is a random street sound music, or does it need to be, you know, for instance, mechanically manipulated in some way. To bring it into some sort of musical form that is more familiar or is the raw thing can you consider that music? Or is anything in that world completely off the table because it wasn't produced by a familiar instrument or the voice? It's 100% in the eye of the folder.
Speaker 3 [00:09:26] Do you like to push those definitions? Is that something you're conscious of?
Cameron Beauchamp [00:09:32] I don't know if we're conscious of that. I think we just like to do what feels good or feels interesting or intriguing, and we work with our musical collaborators, creative collaborators to, yeah, I suppose we do. We push them to explore new sounds, especially from the voice. You know, here we have this massive palette of colors from our band. What do you wanna do with them? Do you want to make a new color out of these three colors? Let's explore something fresh each time.
Speaker 3 [00:10:09] There's something incredibly basic about the human voice. I mean, isn't this basically the most ancient possible way of expressing oneself?
Cameron Beauchamp [00:10:18] Yeah, there's something very basic about the voice, so basic that almost every instrument was created out of the sound of a voice, or a sound that a voice can make.
Speaker 3 [00:10:31] And the fact that you've limited yourself to your voice. What does that do in terms of creativity and thinking about music?
Thann Scoggin [00:10:40] I will say that not only have we limited ourselves in terms of using the voice, although we do have pieces that include instruments and things like that, but as far as what we do in the band, generally not only is it vocal sounds, but it is also purely vocal sounds. Like, we... And, you know, to set ourselves apart from many other a cappella vocal ensembles, we try not to do things where, for instance, voices are imitating percussion instruments, for instance. We don't, we don't do beatboxing sounds. We're interested in finding something that is more unique and more specifically vocal and, best case scenario, something that is new and exciting in that way.
Speaker 3 [00:11:34] How did that actually work? Did somebody come in and say, you know, look, I was vocalizing, I came up with the sound, what do you think?
Cameron Beauchamp [00:11:45] Yeah, it works differently every time. Each time we encounter someone new, a new creator, a new collaborator, we like to be in the process with them from beginning to performance. Oftentimes, they will bring fresh ideas, a new draft of a piece that they're working on. And we are lucky enough that we can be in the same room with the person and. Play off of ideas, suggest things. They'll suggest things to us in new ways that we haven't thought of. And it's really a beautifully collaborative process from ink to performance.
Speaker 3 [00:12:27] Do you ever feel that you don't attain what you're going for? Because there must be some real challenges there.
Cameron Beauchamp [00:12:35] Yeah, that's an interesting question.
Eliza Bagg [00:12:38] I think we're open to the idea of what we're going for changing is how I would answer that. I feel like that's one of the beautiful things about the group too is that there's, I think that's a moving target. And that I think that's been in sort of the DNA of the group for a long time now is that it's really about exploration. So if. We're going for a certain kind of sound and it's not feeling good or not working, then we change the thing that we want. And we're very open to finding the thing that actually does feel good. And I think that's the thing about the human voice too, is that it's this really, really amazing... Meeting of body and sound, whereas I actually used to play the violin so I had a whole different relationship with that and there's something really different about the human voice which along with it being sort of the most like basic primal everybody has one instrument, it's also that it's a physical experience to produce the sound so you have this kind It's not just about what something sounds like, it's also about how it feels to produce it. And I think that's a thing that we really like to explore in the band, too. Of like, what kind of things, like, does it feel good to make it, to do like, as opposed to like, or like, which one of those things is, it produces this sort of like, combined body-mind experience that we're looking for.
Cameron Beauchamp [00:14:09] It was really set up in a way from day one of Room Full of Teeth, Brad Wells, who founded Room Full Of Teeth. Set it up to where there was no expectation of the product. Come together, be in conversation with each other and with other creators from the world, and let's see what happens. And even when we receive a new piece, it changes every time we perform it. No performance is the same. So that's a really a nice piece of freedom with with our band is that There's no expectation for it to be a certain way There's always freedom
Speaker 3 [00:14:50] When we spoke to Natalie, and she said what was different, and I guess not so interesting, but was challenging for her, is when she composes a piece for music, I mean she's a flutist herself, you know, she kind of does what the instruments are going to sound like, composing for voices. Who knows, right?
Cameron Beauchamp [00:15:09] Natalie doesn't give herself enough credit because she's also an extraordinary singer. She always says, oh my gosh, I'm in this room of singers, but she is herself just beautiful.
Speaker 3 [00:15:20] Do you remember, do you remember that afternoon, do you that afternoon's collaboration? Yeah. Let's try to bring this back.
Speaker 4 [00:15:28] Yeah.
Speaker 3 [00:15:29] What you achieved and what you're going for and that sort of thing.
Eliza Bagg [00:15:33] Well, that's a really good example of the kind of experimentation and back and forth that we're talking about because Natalie had brought us these sort of, basically just almost like games. They were kind of just these little ideas and then she was, I think, basically interested in hearing what it sounded like when we played around with them. And, I mean, I don't even know, you might have a better idea of what the piece is going to be like, ultimately, but um, my sense from that day was that she wanted to hear what it sounded like in our voices. Here, if we had any ideas, too, as sort of, like, creators, singers, of, like, I would do this this way, I'd do it three times in a row, I'll do it like this, it would sound like, I would put it in this part of my voice, I want it to resonate like this. And I would want to attach this kind of quality to it and then play with that and see what it sounds like. And then that's where the piece comes from. So this sort of generation, kind of like devised work I guess, generated in collaboration with the performers.
Speaker 3 [00:16:42] Either of you gentlemen remember how I worked in the gallery that afternoon?
Cameron Beauchamp [00:16:46] Yeah, working with Natalie is just so fun. Number one, because she's such a rock star, just extraordinary in the energy she brings in the room is just electric and... Very conducive to being productive.
Thann Scoggin [00:17:00] It is in the way that we aim to be productive. Yeah. Yeah, yeah
Cameron Beauchamp [00:17:02] Yeah, yeah, yeah. She definitely just brings the spark into the room, so you want to do everything you can for her to bring the best out of her and for ourselves. And Natalie is the kind of artist who doesn't want to create a piece and then once you put a period on it, it's done. She's very much into the collaborative. Process, she wants to come in and workshop and try new things, go away for a while, come back, try some more things, maybe do a performance of something, and then six months later say, now that I've been informed and kind of feel the vibe of everyone, I've got it. Yeah, so it's like, we're growing the baby.
Thann Scoggin [00:17:51] Yeah, I think there's something to be said, and we work with a lot of composers that would kind of fall into a similar sort of general category of also being performers themselves and being accustomed to writing for themselves, writing for close relationships, other collaborators, musicians that they have worked with as both a composer and as perhaps a musical collaborator as well. And having this understanding of of, or having this desire to really intimately know the proclivities of the musicians they are composing for. And I think in the way that this group has developed and what the desire of this group has been to really develop individual. Sounds and preferences to a very detailed level, you know, having a composer like that, that really doesn't just want to write a piece of their music, but wants to know intimately the performers that they're working with, what they're capable of, and in a group like ours, how to put all those things together in a way that's really interesting and really
Cameron Beauchamp [00:19:17] Cool thing about getting to know us in Natalie's case the piece that she's writing is very loosely based on marriage and So from the beginning she she was getting to Noah's and asking us these questions and since we're a band that spent Thousands of days together in the last 12 years, you know We've developed all these little strange relationships like a family. So she wanted to know A lot of the pieces are duets with other voices kind of backing them, so she wanted to put these relationships up against each other, like who would be a really dreamy combination or who would like a really... Total nightmare. Yeah, or just like what would be very interesting. Or like weird, yeah. Interesting. Weird, yeah.
Eliza Bagg [00:20:07] Like whose two voices have really different qualities, or whose two voice is like...
Cameron Beauchamp [00:20:12] Or just two humans.
Eliza Bagg [00:20:13] Right, yeah.
Cameron Beauchamp [00:20:14] I want to see these two people interact in a really intimate, strange way.
Eliza Bagg [00:20:17] Every communication is really slightly different and I think we like to like lean into that, you know.
Speaker 3 [00:20:23] That's actually really cool, because where my question was going to be, most of the people interviewed thus far, artists and so on, have been solo practitioners. And they're even like, I don't even have assistants, you know, some of these kind of macho, macho sculpture guys. Yeah, but you don't, this is super collaborative, and how do you be creative when there's like eight voices in the room and then maybe more, you know, outsiders who are somewhat cousins or strangers or whatever, how do, how can you be in that environment, and it is in together two people who might be sparking against each other actually a productive reproductive.
Cameron Beauchamp [00:21:12] Yeah, it can be very productive to put like, you know, opposites attract in a really interesting way musically. Yeah, I mean, since the members of Room Full of Teeth, they all come from different backgrounds of music making. Some people come from, you now, strictly bel canto singing until they encountered Room Full Of Teeth. Or some people were instrumentalists or, you up. We have painters, we have electronic musicians, we have just people coming from all different corners of the artistic world. So it can be very interesting just to see those lifelong sensibilities put next to each other.
Speaker 3 [00:21:56] One last thing about Natalie, from what I'm understanding you say, all the different aspects of working with her, you actually have no idea what it's going to be like, do you?
Thann Scoggin [00:22:05] No. Not at this point. Not really. No.
Cameron Beauchamp [00:22:07] No, we don't really know what it's going to look like. We never know what a piece of music is going to... That's very common.
Eliza Bagg [00:22:11] That's very common, that's very common I would say. With Roomful of Peace, when people write pieces for us I feel like it's often there's a long period where we're working with them and playing around and then what the piece, how the piece actually materializes is often a mystery right up until the last moment and sometimes it changes even quite a bit after that.
Speaker 3 [00:22:36] So is that the case for Natalie? There's going to be, a baby's going to come out, you know, x months from now? Yeah. Without a lot of further contact with the old?
Cameron Beauchamp [00:22:46] Listen, the baby's coming no matter what, so, yeah, we just know we're going to love that baby no matter it is.
Speaker 6 [00:22:55] Put that into a brief full thought mentioning Natalie's name.
Cameron Beauchamp [00:23:00] Yeah, sure. So, Nathalie Juaschem is definitely creating this musical baby for us. And we don't know what it's going to look like or sound like or mean, but we're going to love this baby, no matter what it is. And we just... Trust her and we adore her so much and her art is just extraordinary So whatever comes out of it with with our relationship is going to be exciting
Speaker 3 [00:23:32] She told us that what she liked about the process was that it kind of, by collaborating, it sort of forced her to confront things that she might otherwise not have. She said, I don't think I would like this. I don't like to do this kind of thing. And then I have to consider that.
Eliza Bagg [00:23:52] Yeah, I mean, collaboration, you know, I actually think that's one of the greatest gifts we get as musicians. I have a lot of friends who work in other media and I actually feel like they don't get the opportunity to collaborate. They really have a practice that puts them alone with their writing and they'll talk with other writers and maybe get ideas but it's a really, really different thing when you have the opportunity Thank you. Co-create. And I think that's something we get a lot in the world of music, which I really appreciate. Like I also make my own music. I have like a project basically like an electronic music project and in that world I sometimes make completely by myself in my studio, you know, improvising and editing. Other times it's passing things back and forth and collaboration and that it's always what's amazing to me about collaboration is that it is always always different. You can never predict what's gonna happen based on past collaborations and the chemistry of your artistic personality colliding with somebody else and You know, the best thing you can do is be is be open. I think and and I think in music especially Well, like the collaboration that is roomful of teeth is incredibly specific as well I mean, we've been singing together for years and years. We know each other as people we travel together We eat Chinese food together. We you know what I mean? I mean if we So that is a very specific kind of collaboration that leads to ways of communicating that you could never make any other way other than just the time and the openness that you have to have for each other.
Speaker 3 [00:25:36] We're talking about technology, okay? The voice is not, the voice is the voice. Yet, you are not anti-technology. You started talking about that from the very beginning. Is it just about micing? I mean, is there something else? What's the conversation with technology that we should be?
Cameron Beauchamp [00:25:58] We're always trying to push ourselves, push what the voice is capable of and push what listener hears from a voice. So we've been working with vocal manipulation software the last couple years and even in our, the album that we're gonna put out next, and I would imagine albums that will come in the future, we're approaching them as a standalone piece of art rather than a portrayal of what you will necessarily here in performance. So we're able to mess with the music like a pop producer would or something like that. So to put effects on voices or be able to mix an album in a certain way that you wouldn't necessarily hear from a vocal album.
Speaker 3 [00:26:45] Are you concerned that technology being what it is, and we're seeing this obviously in other forms of art, that technology could replace, that could take the voice farther than something that humans actually think of what we're doing? It would still sound like a voice but uh you know what popped into my head was because one of those famous students artificial is the hbo logo you know that kind of has that choir yeah even that's artificially produced i don't know if it's i don't
Eliza Bagg [00:27:16] I mean
Cameron Beauchamp [00:27:18] It's actually like, uh, Holly, Holly did that collaboration with, um, I can't remember her name, but they created that AI.
Eliza Bagg [00:27:31] Yes. Yeah.
Cameron Beauchamp [00:27:31] Thanks for Proto.
Eliza Bagg [00:27:32] Yeah, yeah, I don't know if you know about the artist Holly Herndon, but yeah, yeah. She's an electronic musician who created this AI for her album, Proto, which is like... I think she's interested. I mean, I actually don't want to speak for Holly, she has her whole own thing. But what I would say to that is that none of us can predict the future. I think I also, as someone who's really interested in vocal manipulation and in my own music too, lots of vocal processing, I think something that's particularly interesting about the voice is because it is this like basic primal thing, it's actually really meaningful to manipulate it in these ways and to combine it with technology because it has this... Very, this very basic like accessible human thing that I think is, especially if you see someone do something live, I think an audience always has this sort of mimetic experience where they understand that someone is producing this out of their body and then to have that interactive technology and be manipulated, you know, autotune, whatever, is like actually very particularly meaningful because it will always have this very basically human thing And yeah, I mean... You know, I mean, so much electronic music and pop music now is vocal synths and vocal auto-tune and like ways of making the voice sound less human, but I think part of the reason that we're particularly interested in that is that our ears are so unbelievably attuned to humanity. I mean it's how we understand each other, it's how we communicate, it- It's it's literally how we are so attuned to human expression in ways. We can't we don't even understand yet And so I think that there's something like yeah I think there's that humanity will always be a particularly interesting even as it gets manipulated with technology But that's just my opinion
Thann Scoggin [00:29:32] That was really good.
Eliza Bagg [00:29:35] That was a wrap on that one. I have thought about this a lot.
Speaker 3 [00:29:39] Well, it's one of those things that somebody else mentions is that it is sort of amazing to think about something that produces sound cycles, right? And it goes to your ear and makes you cry. It produces emotion. What's up with that?
Eliza Bagg [00:30:01] It's amazing, it's so powerful.
Cameron Beauchamp [00:30:05] I don't know. I don't know how it works. I can go through a spell of a year and listen to music and not be moved to tears and then just one little sound hits you in a particular way and you're ruined. I don't know how that works.
Thann Scoggin [00:30:25] Yeah, I think there's something to be said about the voice and the link to, you know, I think we mentioned this at some point as well.
Speaker 3 [00:30:40] That's okay. You're a good one. One strike.
Thann Scoggin [00:30:48] The fact that people who play instruments have been striving to do things with their instruments that in some way imitate vocal sounds says a lot about the power that the human voice has to affect listeners emotionally. I think, the breath and the... Limitations of the breath with singing does a lot in terms of it has informed how we what we think of is is affected music because a singer can only sing a phrase that is so long and has a certain amount of ups and downs, pitch-wise, in it. And I think that is built into how we hear things as humans in a way that is unmistakable and undefinable in terms of how music affects us. So I think using breaths in our music, using all of these sort of sounds that are very human but are not necessarily the first thing most listeners think of when they think of what music is, I think it can still be incredibly effective because that's built into our DNA at this point to recognize those things as human and potentially very expressive and effective.
Speaker 3 [00:32:37] You've taken some inspiration from other cultural expressions, you know, where voice is used. Can you talk a little bit about some of the ones that you just really are in awe of? I know you don't perform with yourself, but just the idea of things that you're just kind of remarkable that you've come across in your career.
Cameron Beauchamp [00:32:57] Yeah, there are so many remarkable ways to use the voice and different cultures or different traditions from around the world use the voices in such unique ways that are just so fascinating. And even going back in history, like there's a particular sound that Tuvan singers use and it's called Kagara. And it's this like sub-octave false vocal fold like grumble, thunderous sound from the earth. And I don't know how old that tradition is, but there's performance practice from France, like early 13th century polyphony where the basses will also use that technique. And I can't imagine that they were in conversation with people from Tuva in the 13th Century, But it just, it just... Something that's so enigmatic to this place also happened here and we've we have in our own study We have found that time and time again that you know, there are these very beautiful unique vocalisms that happen Around the world and make that music so unique
Speaker 3 [00:34:17] It's definitely a harmony, for a second, a harmony in distance, because that's one of the things we're interested in. A smart five-year-old child comes to you, or an alien, and says, what is harmony? What's the answer?
Thann Scoggin [00:34:43] The answer to that is a little collaborative exercise with that child in which I say, just yell a sound, some sort of yelled sound, or a soft sound is similar in terms of having a particular pitch to it. And have them do that and then while they're doing that. Sing something or yell something or do something similar at a different level
Speaker 3 [00:35:17] Do y'all want to take a shot of this?
Thann Scoggin [00:35:20] I don't know. That's harmony.
Speaker 4 [00:35:27] I think I think.
Eliza Bagg [00:35:28] Yeah, I think, I agree that perhaps the best way would be to try and interact with the, I guess I don't know about an alien, that would probably be harder, but I think at least a child, I would say, you know, our ears are so, have spent so much time in the world listening to music, that I think that it's hard to understand exactly how much stuff we've already intuited. I think I would say something like, it's the relationships of how sounds come together and what kinds of relationships are meaningful and the ways in which they're meaningful. So two sounds come to together in a certain way and that means it feels meaningful to us. And then you combine them in a different way and then that feels meaningful in a the whole world.
Speaker 3 [00:36:22] Ask the question a little bit differently, is what you guys do harmonious? Where does dissonance come in? That's kind of what you're talking about, but try to relate it to your own work.
Cameron Beauchamp [00:36:37] Harmony and dissonance is something that we encounter a million times a day, and we take for granted now, especially as musicians, because it's just, we're encountering it every second that we're with each other. And I think it's another case of the eye of the beholder or the ear of the beholder. It's you know what sounds dissonant to us to someone sounds completely consonant and open and beautiful to another ear. I think it just depends on everyone's own experience.
Speaker 3 [00:37:12] But what about with your own work? How do you, how do you look at that? I mean, how does that enter into it in the way in which you think about your work and how you perform your work?
Eliza Bagg [00:37:20] Well, we certainly spend a lot of time thinking about tuning, I will say that, as this group in particular, Roomful of Teeth, there's a lot tuning chords, and with this group it's almost half singing half listening basically is what the job is and so That kind of means that we really spend a lot of time thinking about exactly how the production of sound is fitting with the other people's production of sounds. And sometimes it's something that will be considered like classical western harmony harmonious, and other times it's just stacks of pitches that fit together in really different ways, but there's always a way in which it fits right. And... I feel like that is a huge a huge part of a lot of the music that we do together is This this like deep listening of trying to find the vibration. I mean, it's really like very It's really liked as old as time I mean it's just you sing together and you want it to have that vibration of Working and it can be it can't be a triad it can Be any I mean I don't even understand the physics of that I know it exists, but I don't like so yeah, I don know
Cameron Beauchamp [00:38:45] But there's also a way that we encounter dissonance and harmony within the group that doesn't really have to do with pitch content or a chord or, you know, singing certain notes together. It's this... Massive amount of what some people might call extended techniques, but really it's just different colors that the voice is making, whether pitched or unpitched, that we can consider to be harmonious or dissonant, depending on the type of music or the type of expression we're going for.
Speaker 3 [00:39:20] Do you find that audiences respond to certain, I mean obviously audiences can be comfortable, western audiences are comfortable with, presumably comfortable with certain kinds of musical structure, resolution and things like that, but I think that you don't always, you don t always play by those rules. You have other goals.
Cameron Beauchamp [00:39:43] Yeah, we definitely don't play by the traditional rules of what a concert-goer is expecting. And I think that's the beautiful thing about coming to a Room Full of Teeth concert is that, especially if you don't know our music or don't our story, oftentimes the listener is just presented with something new to them, so it gives them an opportunity to react in a fresh way.
Speaker 3 [00:40:14] Are you seeing some traditional classical repertoire? Yeah. Okay. What's it like to go between teeth and handel or Bach or whatever it is that you see?
Thann Scoggin [00:40:26] My, this is something that in the days of pandemic times where opportunities are more limited for freelance musicians such as us to engage with our instruments, honestly, that I've been thinking about a lot recently. And what I've kind of found is that the two are complete, for me, are completely dependent upon one another.
Speaker 3 [00:40:57] So maybe start off, sorry, just in a rough, just start off with an icing to this rough part, and then you can, then we don't turn.
Thann Scoggin [00:41:07] Um, so in terms of singing traditional classical repertoire and how that relates to my singing in Room Full of Teeth, I would say that the two different approaches are very dependent upon one another for my success as a singer in general. Because I have found so much of my own identity as a singer, even in traditional classical repertoire, as far as my technique is concerned and how I am inspired to sing. It's very, I have so much found of that through my singing with Room Full of Teeth because there is so much room for experimentation and really entertaining sounds that I find interesting to make in a way that I wouldn't have come to just singing traditional classical sounds. And I think that has made me find a lot in terms of just different approaches to on technique. But I will also say that, you know, kind of spending time in the woodshed singing, you, know, the great masters, singing Bach, singing, singing you know familiar territory that goes back in my life way beyond my time with Room Full of Teeth is really helpful for just staying kind of in a basic place of vocal health, vocal conditioning.
Speaker 3 [00:42:43] And you have a totally different practice as well.
Eliza Bagg [00:42:50] Yeah, I mean, I do a lot of different things. I do lot of new music with other composers outside of Ring Full of Teeth as well, and that can really span a gamut of, but really can be a lot of different thing. And I have this practice that I've developed in my own, making my own work, where I, which I actually, my voice is my primary instrument in that work as well. So I. I honestly, as I've gotten older and my practice has deepened in both of those arenas, I find that they have come much closer together than they used to be. I think I used to think I have the music I make and I have my classical singing and sometimes in my classical thing I get to like, you know, kind of access this world and now I kind of feel like there's really not that much difference. It's, I, I've. I mentioned something earlier about designing your voice esthetically and I think it's been as I've gotten older and gone more into my career, especially in contemporary classical music. I've really done a lot of thinking of just singing the way that I want to sing and having that be more across the board. So for me, and I've also been extremely lucky, I will say that, in having collaborations with a lot composers who I think are interested in working with a performer who wants to do that. So I think that these days I like to think of them as being the same.
Cameron Beauchamp [00:44:21] What's the menzo who did so much with John Harbison? Lorraine Hunt? Yeah, yeah. I think about two. I think about two singers from the classical world that really made a mark with their individuality of singing, and that's Dietrich Fischer-Dieskow and Lorraine Hunt-Lieberson, who really did their way and stood out in a crowd of extremely emotive, beautiful singers. But every time you hear those two voices, you just know because they sing in a way, they make music in a in a that's so uniquely them. Yeah, they have not.
Thann Scoggin [00:45:08] Away from their sort of basic sound at all. I think they've really embraced it and they have they were both in positions for one reason or another. That they were they were able to make the music that they wanted to make I know with Fisher d scow in particular, you know coming out of World War two There just weren't a lot of male singers in Germany So like he got all the work because he was good and he survived So he was singing opera. He was singing early music in the very formative years of performance practice of Baroque and Renaissance music, and obviously all of the art song singing that he was doing. And because of that, he was able to just be himself and sing in the way that he felt best singing. He didn't have to fit into a particular mold. And I think that's That's one of the great things about Wrinkle of Teeth is that we truly are, a lot of people say this, but we truly ARE encouraged to bring the things to the table that are honest to us, that are original to us and unique to us. And I think that, that for me, has been incredibly liberating, you know, coming out of the opera world where it is very much like, Be this way. And if you're not, well.
Speaker 3 [00:46:37] The camera, Ron, that's something that you would like to attain with your voice in a concert of teeth, okay, that you haven't got there yet.
Cameron Beauchamp [00:46:48] From a very young age, my dream was to be a rock and roll singer. I think I'm well past that for many reasons, but through Room Full of Teeth and through working with composers and maybe I'll just kind of hint at the side. I'm able to explore those childhood dreams, like make a sound here or there, and some composers are totally game with each of us exploring our own passions or dreams within music they're creating for us. That's definitely a part of my voice that I want to explore more and learn how to be more flexible, open, malleable with.
Speaker 3 [00:47:36] There's a sound you want to make that you haven't made yet.
Eliza Bagg [00:47:40] I think I'd like to be able to belt a little higher.
Thann Scoggin [00:47:44] We got you.
Eliza Bagg [00:47:44] I had that one great moment at Mocha. You weren't there, it was only the women. Yeah, that's not really, that doesn't come naturally to my voice. I'm more of a, I have a darker, softer, floaty sound that's very natural to me. And so, actually this is something I, in my own music too, I had been exploring pushing my voice to a harsher, edgier, brighter place. Because it's just very easy for me to go to the like, oh, you want me to do like angelic and ethereal? Like, you got it, you know? That's like right out, right there. But doing something that's a little like with that edge that comes much more naturally to other members of a group like Virginia, one of the other singers, like her voice like does that really like naturally. So it's fun, it's like that's not natural to me. I'd love to go to that place more, the like brighter, felt to you like edgier, harsher place.
Speaker 3 [00:48:45] You know, one of those things I was thinking about, you know, those movies where they bring together a team of people to go and like, you now, break into the king's jewels or something like that. And everybody's got a specialty. Oh yeah. Everybody's got the same one. You're the driver, you're the idea man. The heist flick. The heists flick, exactly. Ocean's Eleven, whatever. What are your sounds? Wait, that's your...
Cameron Beauchamp [00:49:07] I'm just stretching for a sec, while you're inspiring us.
Speaker 3 [00:49:10] It's fine, it's fine if we need to take a break. What's your staff? I mean, what do you, you know?
Thann Scoggin [00:49:21] So the music that was my personal gateway into wanting to do music was heavy metal. Like no doubt about it. I took piano lessons from very early age. I was singing in choirs from a very early age, both my parents were musicians. But the thing that did it for me was when I picked up a guitar and started playing guitar and I was like, this is mine and I really relate to this. This is the kind of music that I really dig. I never had any interest in the vocal side of that music, however in Room Full of Teeth, one of the interests was to potentially develop some sort of screaming sounds from, you know, particularly from like the extreme heavy metal world. And that is a world that I know very well, despite never really wanting to take part in the vocal aspect of that. But because I've listened to so much of that music, like I kind of know the esthetics. And in this, we have a few pieces that call for that sort of thing, and it feels really awesome to like generally be the go-to person in the group to like... Scream into a microphone. It's very cathartic in a way where so much of our music is really kind of Buttoned down and really using the ears and like really, you know staying in a particular Particular place especially for the guys because we have to hold down long cords and things like that But to just every once in a while just be able to let loose It's pretty cool Yeah, sure
Cameron Beauchamp [00:51:08] It's authentic.
Speaker 3 [00:51:09] That doesn't sound like yoke, huh? Ha ha ha ha! How are you, Cameron? You gotta stay out? You gotta... Cameron's moment?
Cameron Beauchamp [00:51:19] Yeah, you know, it's interesting, I'm the lowest voice in the group. I sing number eight, one through eight. So composers often want me to just sing low notes, and where I'm comfortable with that a lot of the time, it is not my favorite thing to do, which is just kind of my your voice. But with the color of a higher voice. I thought I have a very bright voice and I like to sing melodies. I like the sing up in the upper register of my voice. I like a sing like a folk singer or a rock singer or something like that. So, I guess I don't get to do that that often. I just wanna do it right now. Tight cast.
Speaker 3 [00:52:06] Marius, Marius is going to let people finish before you talk. Okay. Yep. Okay. Jesse, can you give an email to them? I don't think so. No? No. Give them a deep breath? I'm not allowed to. Okay. Okay.
Thann Scoggin [00:52:20] Yeah, right. Right, right, right
Speaker 3 [00:52:23] And how about you give us a hand? I know you've talked about it.
Eliza Bagg [00:52:27] Yeah, I mean, I really do think the sound that I have kind of, both that have developed it and also has been kind of like where people have started asking me to do is this kind of light, really light, ethereal, no vibrato, floaty sound that's, you know, somewhere between, and that accesses some pop singers like Elizabeth Frazier from like Cocteau and type sound, along with the kind of like... Philip Glass, like very instrumental, like perfect, that that's kind of like the thing. I'm like, and it comes very easily to me too, which, which so it's just I'm happy to just do that, you know.
Speaker 3 [00:53:09] It's interesting though, because you obviously have things, the reason people come to you is because you're good at being the big, right, you're going to be big, you are good at it being ethereal, but as artists, it's not like you want to push yourself, you want take yourself in a different direction, but it's an interesting sort of creative, collaborative element.
Thann Scoggin [00:53:29] I think that's a common thread with any of the people that we love and work with on a regular basis as musicians, that we're incredibly hard on ourselves. We're incredibly demanding of what we bring and are able to produce on a day-to-day basis. And we're inspired to do things outside of what we can currently do. And I think that's something that, you know, as frustrating as that is, is one of the things that keeps me going, is the fact that that is built in, that I just, it will never be good enough, and there's always more to do.
Speaker 3 [00:54:23] Yeah, that actually, and then I'm going to ask anybody else questions, but yeah, satisfaction. Are you ever really satisfied?
Cameron Beauchamp [00:54:32] Oh my God, yes, always, always satisfied. Yeah, even, the cool thing about a teeth show is, even if individually we're not on our personal top of the game, it's just so fun. It's really fun. And...
Eliza Bagg [00:54:50] You need that. As a performer, you have to be present enough when you're performing to allow yourself to have those moments of satisfaction. I have this joke with the group with that I like to look around when we're singing partita, which is a piece we've performed many times and just look at everyone and think, here we are performing partita and just sitting in that happiness. You have to. Otherwise, as a performer you're, no. No way.
Cameron Beauchamp [00:55:19] We talk about freedom a lot in our job with teeth, in that we are allowed to bring our own authentic selves at any given moment, and that changes from moment to moment. When an audience member comes to see, let's say, Renee Fleming singing a Puccini opera, they come to expect a certain sound from her. No one else in the world can make the sound that she can, but people expect it. And when they come to our show, they don't necessarily expect us to make a specific sound. They might expect for it to be wild and crazy, which it will be, but if I'm feeling vocally off, I can just do whatever I want to make the music work for myself and the group in that way on that given night. And there's so much satisfaction in that.
Speaker 3 [00:56:16] Great, anybody have a question? We have a quick question here. You can look at me. You talk about having that kind of satisfaction, being able to sort of extemporize in a way. At the same time, do you find that there's a certain sort of mathematical equation to what you do as well? Is there an underpinning like that somewhere? I mean, when we talk about boss, we love our boss. It's like, oh, yeah, so he's so about the natural most practically perfectly shaped at this point, right? Yeah. Yeah, but is there something in what you all do that you sometimes think about that?
Cameron Beauchamp [00:56:52] Definitely, the music is so complex, at least a lot of the pieces that we sing are so complex that everything has to come together in a certain way for it to be successful. Now there's a lot grace within those details that we can collaborate, we can improvise on, but we have to hit the marks in a very specific way for it come across as a success to the listener.
Thann Scoggin [00:57:21] Yeah, I think there's a shared esthetic compass that is not something that there's no test to determine if people that want to sing in the group can pass that, but I think it's something that we all possess in our own way, that we know, like, we can hear a piece of music or we can look at a score and we can say, like well, this is what this piece is and whereas there might be a little bit of flexibility. In some way, whether it's generally not a rhythmic way, because the rhythm of most of our music is one of those pieces that that really is important and makes us who we are, so we sing rhythmically precise in a way that you often don't hear from vocal groups, but...
Cameron Beauchamp [00:58:09] And shade.
Thann Scoggin [00:58:10] I know, right? But we all share this ability to recognize what is esthetically appropriate and knowing our role within the group and when there is potential for expanding that and how.
Eliza Bagg [00:58:29] It's precise. I mean, there's a lot of precision, but it goes back to the idea of listening. It's mostly about listening more than enacting something very precise, you know? It's like you have to fit in, and you have fit in in the right place. You have to tune it, but yeah. So there's, there is a certain amount of precision in that way, but...
Cameron Beauchamp [00:58:57] There's a quote by a famous comedian that we like to say sometimes that really applies to our work and on any given performance night, we get paid for the attempt. You know, it's always gonna be different. It doesn't always match what we might want it to be in that night, but it's gonna work. So, there's another moment of freedom. Perfect shows only.
Eliza Bagg [00:59:23] Perfect shows only, only perfect shows. Perfection.
Speaker 3 [00:59:29] That's good. I think we're gonna adopt it. That's a good idea. It's gonna be a perfect film.
Speaker 6 [00:59:35] I had a pretty much a similar question to Andrew's about mathematics. There are so many people who associate music and mathematics and as we were saying, Bach is in terms of resolution, in terms of think-apation, it's a long word. A formula. Yeah. Is there a mathematical quality, what you do, is it subconscious, it doesn't exist, that's so old-fashioned, who cares about that kind of symmetry?
Speaker 3 [01:00:14] It doesn't have to be teeth. Teeth isn't really the best exemplar of that. You know what I mean? Maybe you have something that you think about when you think too much. I don't know. But the mathematics of it all, that's kind of the... And if it's not, it's nothing. We're just looking around for ways here. That's what we're doing.
Cameron Beauchamp [01:00:34] It's a really interesting question about mathematics and music because people that study music from a young age, you hear this all the time, people that studied math or science are often times really good at music too, like the brain kind of works in a similar way. But personally as a musician, I don't think about that, I never think about math, I don't want to think about it. But there is something about certain type of music that really has a formula. And there are certain composers like Philip Glass or Bach. You're performing their music, you know this formula, you know how to fit into the equation. But with our music, each composer we work with has such a different esthetic that there's really no formula. We just try and program the music in a certain way it. It feels like a story.
Eliza Bagg [01:01:35] I feel like also, I mean, yeah, it's funny. It's interesting to get that question because I also, I think I feel similarly to Cameron in that I never think about that at all. Even though we all do a lot of music that requires highly attuned mathematics. I mean like really difficult like rhythmic stuff. Um, but I think the thing is like, I prefer to get to the place with that music where it actually transcends the mathematical brain, like the mathematical brain basically means I don't know the music well enough and when I know the music well, enough it's, it's embodied and it becomes an embodied experience. And there's mathematical brain is, is like on the way to that. You use that before you internalize.
Speaker 3 [01:02:21] Cool. That's a great, that's very interesting. And you said you actually did not have to make that.
Thann Scoggin [01:02:28] I actually have more associations with more detailed mathematical thinking about how music is made in my associations with teeth than any other singing that I do. Whether it be through analysis of the music that we're working on, which is often incredibly rhythmically complex. To the extent that just knowing Where my specific part in the texture falls in terms of the beat is not enough because we don't work with a conductor We don't have someone saying this is where the beat Is I have to know where the rest of the music falls around whatever part that I'm singing But again, I'm not thinking about that in performance. I've done that work ahead of time I would say in in terms different sorts of techniques that we've worked on Having some sort of mathematical approach to it is often really, really beneficial. Done extensive work in both overtone singing and in just intonation, which both have a lot of math for composers that produce just intонation music to just learning how to sing overtones in a way that is, you know, really unlocks the potential of that sort of singing. There's a lot of math involved, but at a certain point... Your knowledge and your internalization of that definitely transcends just the gateway of understanding how it works.
Speaker 3 [01:04:17] When we were up in Mass MoCA, I think that's when you started rehearsals at 10, we got there at 10.30, we walked into the middle of your rehearsal and you were all vocalizing, like all of you, and it was like, whoa, it's easier, you know, you were in a big circle, which I know you weren't out there, but what's that like, what's it like to feel like you're part of this large thing that's working together? And making these sounds, and the sounds are just gorgeous.
Thann Scoggin [01:04:50] It's really inspiring, and it's really intimidating, but only in a productive way, because, you know, all of these sounds are attached to humans that I have a lot of love for and a lot feelings for. So it's not just hearing these sounds from, for instance, from Deshaun, singing bel Toronto sound, high voice sound, and knowing, yeah, that's... That ship has sailed for me making those sounds, long sense, but it's like I'm in awe of what this person is capable of doing. It's so inspiring and I'm so lucky to get to be around this person who can do this cool stuff and is also just an amazing person.
Cameron Beauchamp [01:05:41] It's very cool to be in a group of humans where we've spent so many hours, so many days, so many years together, and we've gotten to know each other so well and know each others musical brains so well that you trust in a performance if I happen to screw something up or lose my place, I know. Or Dashaun or Eliza or Caroline or Estelle or anyone in the group, if I miss a beat, they will lock eyes with me immediately and just bring me right back to it. Whether they're covering something that I was supposed to do or just giving me a look of, it's okay, that doesn't matter, we're back.
Speaker 3 [01:06:31] What about flow? You know the concept of flow, right? Yeah. Do you feel that way sometimes in any performance or even rehearsal? You're just like, you're just grooving. Where does the time go?
Eliza Bagg [01:06:43] All the time. We're all about the flow. Yeah, presence. I mean, presence is so important as a performer. I used to really struggle with performance anxiety, and then I realized. It was, it's, well, I went the whole thing, but part of what got me out of it was like, you have to be present. Basically, performance anxiety is just you being outside of yourself and not allowing yourself to go into a flow state. And it's a waste of time and whatever. But being present and just thinking about, the only thing you're thinking about is just exactly what's happening right there. I mean, again, I feel like it's a gift that you get as a musician. I haven't felt that anywhere else in my life. And I think it's particularly amazing. So yeah, that access to the flow state. I mean sometimes I feel like I black out when we do performances. I'm just like, you're in this other zone.
Speaker 6 [01:07:47] I have one more question. Couple of months from now, you guys are going to Norway and you're going to be performing, we believe, in a piece by Carolyn Shaw. What, can you sort of walk us through what your anticipation and how that might work?
Speaker 3 [01:08:07] And you can say it at that point. We're going to show up, and we're going to see.
Cameron Beauchamp [01:08:12] So in a couple of months we'll be traveling to Bergen, Norway, for the Bergen Festival, and we're going to be premiering a new work by Caroline Shaw, member of Room Full of Teeth, in an orchestra there. We have no idea what it's going to be. We don't know what it is going to about. We probably won't know any of these things, maybe, until we get there, which is par for the course for Room Full of teeth, working with composers, working with Caroline. But it's another thing of trust. We trust Caroline so deeply in her creation and that she knows us so well that when she hands us something, it will be tailor-made for each of us. It will be comfortable, it will exciting, and it will written with a lot of love.
Speaker 3 [01:09:06] Can you have a date or?
Cameron Beauchamp [01:09:07] And we'll have a day to rehearse it. And that will be sufficient. Yeah, it'll be plenty.
Speaker 3 [01:09:15] Cool. Good. Great. One question about arts education as a concept, I know you're a teacher fan, you're all beneficiaries of this. I'm sort of a believer in the intangible qualities that kids get from these things, when you're singing with a group or taking care of an instrument, the discipline and confidence that comes from that. I'm just curious, we talked about the science aspect and all the other aspects, you have the happiness you feel. Any other intangibles? Just working with a group as opposed to a solo project or harmonizing your voices, that, you know, get heavy about it. What does that feel like for you? What do you take away?
Thann Scoggin [01:09:58] I think that there is something really to be said about performing with a group in a group setting that leads to being able to function in a collective of any kind. I mean, especially at the level that we're at at this point where we're kind of dependent upon it in so many ways, dependent upon the functionality of it, but even at the level of your school choir, you're not sitting in a desk sort of worrying about your own work, the calculations that you're doing in math or whatever, but you are having to having to function in a way where the music can happen, where people can, you know, even something as simple as. Stopping talking and starting making music at the same time. You know, I think I think all of that is is you know It's a big part of living in a functional society is being able to you know, sort of function as as a piece of a whole in a way that That allows it to work
Cameron Beauchamp [01:11:17] There's something magical about singing in a group or singing with other people. Oxytocin is actually released within the body and that's something that is rare. Mothers experience that in childbirth. They say if you hug someone for more than 20 seconds or something, oxytocine will be released. But it is palpable when you're singing with other people that there's a feeling that's both physical and emotional that you just can't find anywhere else.
Eliza Bagg [01:11:56] And you have to humble yourself in this really beautiful way to blend your voice with somebody else's. I mean, it is a physical thing that you are doing. You are taking the sound of your own voice. Blending it with somebody else's sound. I don't exactly understand what you are doing, but it's like you feel it I mean you feel the way that you have to change your timbre to match theirs, and they're both doing it So you come together. It's really like I mean It's very beautiful
Speaker 6 [01:12:31] Why does music education matter?
Cameron Beauchamp [01:12:37] Music education is just one of the most important things in the world, it teaches kids or people of all ages how to interact and process and deal with complex emotions, teaches people how to trust each other more, like truly the entire human experience you can put into music. And I don't know of any other walks of life where you can find that.
Speaker 4 [01:13:16] May I ask a question? What was your earliest childhood memories of singing? I used to listen to it when I was about four or five years old. We had a cast of musicians, and we had the soundtrack of The Great Cruiser. Somebody already won that. Wow. I used listen to that and tried to imitate it. It's amazing. How long have you been recalculating after hearing it? Have you ever heard anything like that? Yeah.
Cameron Beauchamp [01:13:47] I think my earliest memory of singing was with my mom, probably, it was that Crosby Stills Nash tune, Our House, and there's that loop in there that comes around each time and still every time I hear that, same thing with Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, every that little chorus loop comes around. It just hit me in a way, like I remember as a little kid singing that with my mom.
