full interview_miguel chevalier_1.mp4
Speaker 1 [00:00:00] So Mikuel, tell us about this piece that we are looking at.
Miguel Chevalier [00:00:04] Well, the name of this piece is Origin of the World. It's a lot in relationship with the notion of the cells, how the cells are growing and they're developing. And when the people move, of course, the piece interacts in the sense of the movement of your body, you know. And each minute, they have another pattern who arrive. And it's interesting because sometimes it's black and white like before. Sometimes you can see different layers. And it is also a piece to experiment, you know. It's just if the people do not move, you have not this... You can see only part of the piece. In reality, in this piece, you need to move on the space to have more the sensation. Of how this cell is growing and how it is developing.
Speaker 1 [00:01:09] What inspired you to make a piece about cells?
Miguel Chevalier [00:01:13] Well, I, because this is, before I developed many pieces in relationship with the nature. The nature, especially with the, I invent the different virtual seeds, and with these different virtual seed we can create virtual garden. And in this case, sometimes I was inspired by also some, what they develop in the world of the science. And the science, it's OK. And in this world, they have so much development in the world of the science. And I tried to catch some ideas of how we can analyze this image of the cell. And it gives you some time also, sort of a psychedelic environment, you know? And like when you smoke too much, maybe you can see this kind of piece. And you know it's interesting when you really, you move, you see how immediately the piece was changing, you know. And that's what I am also interested in because this piece is, in reality, it's generative, but also it's interactive.
Speaker 1 [00:02:36] So when you made this piece and your other works of art, you're collaborating with a computer and software. How do you talk about creativity when you're collaborating? Bye.
Miguel Chevalier [00:02:49] For doing this piece, of course, I work with some engineers to develop the software, because this software, if you want to do this piece you cannot buy the software and do this piece. You need to write directly on the code how you need to choose the color, you need choose the shape, and of course it's a sort of work of collaboration, you know, like a movie. You have several persons, someone who has a camera, some of the others take the sound. So, of course, I have some ideas. And for this, to create this creativity, it's also, I work with a small team, you know? And we have a lot of great relationship with the guy who do the, in this case, he's Cyrille Henry, who designed the... Who write the code for this piece. But, and it takes at least one year or one year and a half, sometimes more. And when I show this piece here in this, in my studio, I can experiment this piece, you know. It's before to show in the museum or sort of private gallery. Never we arrive like this, it takes time to realize one piece like this.
Speaker 1 [00:04:21] So you have pioneered this art with technology. How has the technology over the past 30 or 40 years changed the way you make art?
Miguel Chevalier [00:04:36] Well, they changed a lot because at the beginning in 1980, the access to the computer was very difficult. It was very expensive. And at the end of 1980, they have the computer you can buy for cheap computer. And with the video games, they opens the world of the 3D and the... The computer can calculate much more. But in this case, I use these tools, because for me, it was very hard to generate new idea in the world of the painting, because when you analyze the end of the 19th century and the 20th century, it was difficult for me to imagine some how to create sort of avant-garde, because all of the avant-gardes, they push so far the painting. For at the end it was necessary to explore some new territory and the digital for me was a new new field where very few artists can explore this before because they have no this access to these tools, you know, it's a tool but in this tool you can open some things that you cannot do in the painting For example, the interaction, the generativity, something that is not in loop, but something we are changing all the time. So for me, it's a new, yes, it's new place to explore the possibility of this field, and step by step, the people accept by little by little, this kind of but at the beginning of 18, 19, nobody or very few people are open to this kind of art because it looks very technical and for many people the technique can be an art. But in reality if you do video, if you photography, if do sculpture in bronze, you need also some technique.
Speaker 1 [00:07:02] How do you know when something is finished?
Miguel Chevalier [00:07:08] Well, it's like many other artists, when they are in front of the canvas, he decides to paint, when it's difficult to say, oh, it is finished, because in reality you can push further, further, in this case, of course, I have several series, and of course Sometimes I say, that's okay, it's great like this and we... And after maybe one year, we can create a new piece, new series, a new variation about this, you know? But in my case, of course, I have quite some experience and I can say, oh, this composition is great. Is this color you feel for me great? And so it's...
Speaker 1 [00:08:05] And when something is finished, when you decide...
Miguel Chevalier [00:08:09] It's complex because this is the piece that it can generate at the infinity. But at the beginning you need to put all the ingredients, all the elements, to be sure that all this remixed can create many variations and many interesting things.
Speaker 1 [00:08:29] And when you stand back and look at it, how does it feel?
Miguel Chevalier [00:08:35] But I feel great, I feel something that I feel that's something how I explain. In English, I am not so good to explain this, but you know, like when the composer or it's for me, say, okay, I find a piece that is... In relationship with some other piece because of course here you see one piece of 500 pieces that I am doing you know so it's it's only one small window about what I am But If you look well at my work, you can see many links to one piece to another piece.
Speaker 3 [00:09:25] You can explain how you're feeling in French, too. Yeah, you want to say it in French? So when you finish, when you decide to walk away, or it's finished, calasse, how do you feel? You can answer in French. Thank you.
Miguel Chevalier [00:09:37] When the work is finished, when is it finished?
Speaker 1 [00:09:43] Is it emotional? Is it?
Miguel Chevalier [00:09:45] No, no, the emotion is one part of the thing. But my art is not only emotion. It's also a reflection about the art history, how there can be a relationship with some painting, from what is specific about this digital. It's what I explain as someone. I develop many things, like on the facade of this building. The notion of the pixel, you know, Roy Lichtenstein, he was enlarged the notion of the point or Hamilton or Alain Jacquet, but what I am doing, I work with pixels, so I have a lot of piece, if you see in relationship with this notion of pixel or voxels, the pixel in 3D, you I'm not, how do I say, I not arrive in... To the digital because he was new. It was because he opened some possibilities that can be enlarge the world of the painting, you know? In reality, if you see in the art history, when you have many example in the history where you see, for example, the photography. The people at the 19th century, they say, oh, it's only photography, reproduction, it's technique, and it's not art. And after, they have an artist like Man Ray, who takes a rheogram, and he shows that he can do something specific with the photography, and he takes time. But at the end, the people can understand that everybody can have a camera, and... And they cannot do a great photography, you know, it's... And it's the same for the video. The artist of Nanjun Paik, he use a camera and you can do a reportage, you can film, but also you can't do art with this. So, for me, it was some examples. If I use the tool of the computer, not to do the apologize about these tools, but to try to find a way. And to find some link with the art history, maybe with the time this kind of exploration can be an art.
Speaker 3 [00:12:24] That's a great, that was one of our themes, is about innovation in art. Ah, okay. And so I want to ask you, do you have a particular, going back before photography, do you feel a particular connection to an innovation that happened in classical art history, things like that? Do you have any idea?
Miguel Chevalier [00:12:44] About my background, no.
Speaker 3 [00:12:48] No, not your background, it's just we're going with Gérard to the Louver on Thursday to look at oil paintings. Ah, yes. It's an innovation, right?
Miguel Chevalier [00:12:58] For me, one artist who are very exciting, they have several, of course. But when I go to the Musée de l'Orangerie, when they have, you can see the Nymphea, the water lily of Monet. It's very interesting, very inspired me because they create sort of the sensation to enter inside of the painting. But in reality, What I am doing here is to enter in the notion of immersion in the image. And what is interesting in Monet is because photography can take some image immediately, so he tried to catch the notion of the light and the time of the different hours or the seasons. And for this... In reality, it's a sort of prefiguration of what happened for me on the computer. Because the computer, of course, generates some algorithm, but what we are projecting is light. And here you have variation of variation at the infinity. So for me it's interesting to create sort of link with sort of homage in this sense. To Monet, but there are many others, like Seurat, who do the pointeism. And the pointeeism, he was inspired by the theory of Chevroy about the diffraction of the light. And in reality, when you look very close the screen, you can see it's thousands of thousands small point, and it's sort of what happened with the computer. But after, when we enlarge, You can see that it is not any more point, but it is some type of pixels. Like Mondrian, who started something very figurative to go to the notion of the boogie-woogie. And the boogie-woogie, it's, in reality, what happened here. And this is why I do many references to the pixels and, of course, the possibility of the light, the color. I love the color like Matisse, who developed many strong colors in the form. So my idea is not to do pseudo Monet or pseudo Mondrian or pseudo Matisse but how to see the link with this artist and how, I hope, to open some new ideas that is Miguel Chevalier. But the future can be said yes or not.
Speaker 3 [00:15:50] So who is the creator, you or the computer?
Miguel Chevalier [00:15:54] But the computer is like the mayonnaise. If you don't put the elements, the eggs, and you can't turn and everything, nothing happens. In reality, you need to implement, to put the ingredient, to have this kind of piece. It's why I explain that in reality, the software is not. So quick sometimes the people they say oh he press on the button and everything is happened but in reality it takes time to to work well this piece and and that's that's why i is not the computer the computer if you don't put anything he give you anything you know it's what it depends of the the element that you introduce in this inside
Speaker 3 [00:16:51] The first time I heard a computer compared to mayonnaise.
Miguel Chevalier [00:16:54] Ha ha ha.
Speaker 1 [00:16:55] Do you have a sense of what you're doing next? Is there a next innovation for you with technology? Well, I'll
Miguel Chevalier [00:17:04] Well, each time we are improving all the time the piece that I am doing. So I am developing, pushing something. But now I am a developing a new software where pixel at the different scale. So, it's easy now on the computer to do something with the pixelization. But the pixel with a different scale is completely, I think, interesting for me. And I can invite you next year to show this piece that I am preparing for an exhibition in Korea in November.
